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Bert n Ernie Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2013
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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posticon Problems starting and has cut out while driving


Hi All,
        have been having on and off problems with the Exy for about two months now. It started by not wanting to start, would have to turn it over heaps before it would kick in. Then while I was away at work, it wouldn't start at all for the Better Half. Got the RAC to tow and check it out. While they were doing there thing I was researching like mad on here. They ran the diagnostics and then changed out the suspected sensors and all seemed good.
       Two weeks later (me still at work) the BH couldn't get it going again, this time got it taken to a Nissan dealer, they diagnosed an air bubble in the system, didn't charge us the nice blokes.
       At times after this we still had trouble starting it, so changed the battery, seemed to make a difference.
       We have had two occasions were it lost power (engine stopped) while driving, both times taken to either a nissan dealer or the dealer we got it through, nothing showed on the diagnostics.
       Bought a fuel system cleaner (even though all the filters had been changed at the last service) don't know if I was being duped by internet info but I was willing to give it a crack.
       The fuel consumption has been going up and down slightly, we normally get 7.0, but it's been tracking up to 7.4 and back down, then up, then down....
       Then again this morning the BH could not start it.
        Any help or pointers would be greatly appreciated. I have just read the 'diesel fuel quality' post, and even if it turns out to be not fuel related, I will be changing where I fill up!

Cheers, Tony.
 2009 T31, TS manual diesel.
3/Feb/2014, 9:07 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Exywarrior Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2011
Location: Darwin, NT
TOTAL POSTS: 325
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Re: Problems starting and has cut out while driving


For a diesel engine to not want to start is unusual.

You are right in suspecting fuel quality - it would be the first thing I'd consider.

The way the mechanics suggested it had an air bubble, then the problem came back makes me wonder if you have a fuel leak somewhere and air is getting in.

Your fuel consumption is still pretty good - if you are averaging between 7.0 and 7.4 then you are probably getting better than most. I average 7.5 at present and that's driving over 90km daily on mostly highway conditions.

But while petrol engines effectively need fuel and spark to run, all a diesel really needs is fuel and compression. I'm assuming your compressions are still ok in a 2009 model TS, so that really points to some sort of fuel issue. Possibly the fuel pump? It's a 1600 bar fuel system in the M9R so any loss in pressure would affect starting.

Injector failure is another possibility, although I assume the mechanics would have looked at these.

Keep at it - in many of these cases the problem is often staring you in the face.

Good luck.



Last edited by Exywarrior, 3/Feb/2014, 11:35 pm


---
Mark T
2011 Series 4 T31 TL Auto - Twilight, factory towbar, factory mats, tinting, Cooper CS5s, cathodic protection, paint protection, yada yada...and no Provent
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3/Feb/2014, 11:31 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
popeclement Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Perth, WA
TOTAL POSTS: 476
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Re: Problems starting and has cut out while driving


Hi Tony

A little test - before starting the first time in the morning, open the bonnet and prime the rubber bulb near the RH strut mount. As you prime it, it should become reasonably firm - then try starting. If it starts straight away, it does suggest an air leak but I would have expected to see some fuel leaking. If it doesn't then the problem could be at the high pressure fuel pump itself and you don't want to go there just yet.

You say the filters have been changed - I assume this is the one again adjacent to the priming buib - you could drain off some fuel from the base but it is not easy - just in case there is any contamination.

I noticed on mine if I left it standing particularly in the hot weather we had recently and had not used it for a day or two, I would need to prime the bulb.

Just a suggestion to eliminate possibilities. I know on mine they said they changed the fuel filter but hadn't - you have no way of knowing for sure and it was pretty dirty when I did change it.

---
X-916, VW Golf 90TSi manual, limestone grey, no extras
2008 TL dc i, manual, twilight; full set bash plates, jaos strut bar
- traded
3/Feb/2014, 11:41 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Bert n Ernie Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2013
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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posticon Re: Problems starting and has cut out while driving


Thanks for your quick and well explained answers guys. I am away at work so the BH will give it a go when she gets a chance. I'll report back on the progress.
4/Feb/2014, 8:21 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Exywarrior Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2011
Location: Darwin, NT
TOTAL POSTS: 325
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Re:


The more I've thought about this fault, the more I think it will be either a blocked fuel filter or a sick fuel pump. Searches of other forums on the internet also suggest the fuel pump based on the symptoms described. Try googling "nissan xtrail fuel pump" and it comes up with some interesting answers.

---
Mark T
2011 Series 4 T31 TL Auto - Twilight, factory towbar, factory mats, tinting, Cooper CS5s, cathodic protection, paint protection, yada yada...and no Provent
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4/Feb/2014, 11:14 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Perth, WA
TOTAL POSTS: 476
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Re: Re:


Just to clarify - there are two pumps - the low pressure in tank unit that sits in the tank beneath the RHS passenger's seat & the high pressure one on the side of the motor.

You might like to lift the RH rear seat and remove the fabric cover over the cover plate - remove this to access the top of the fuel pump to ensure connections both electrical and fuel are intact - there should be no leaking around here including the return line.

Removing the fuel cap to access the pump requirea tank cap tool - I made one up but Kinchrome do one too.

---
X-916, VW Golf 90TSi manual, limestone grey, no extras
2008 TL dc i, manual, twilight; full set bash plates, jaos strut bar
- traded
5/Feb/2014, 12:44 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Exywarrior Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2011
Location: Darwin, NT
TOTAL POSTS: 325
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Re:


Hey Tony,

What the outcome of this problem? Curious to know if you solved it. I'm still guessing it was a fuel pressure problem (ie fuel pump).

Mark

---
Mark T
2011 Series 4 T31 TL Auto - Twilight, factory towbar, factory mats, tinting, Cooper CS5s, cathodic protection, paint protection, yada yada...and no Provent
X-2099
18/Feb/2014, 5:04 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Bert n Ernie Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2013
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re:


Hi Gents,
Huge apologies for the delayed reply, I have hardly been home to do any trouble shooting. What I have done though:
- Only fueling with good quality diesel.
- Tested the pump under the hood after it conked out on me backing out of driveway. Used the hand prime pump (? right term?), it had no fuel in it when started pumping. After a few pumps it would feel full, but could hear it draining off, it seemed to retain the same firmness but get no harder. It started after this, but still took a bit of turning over (maybe 10 to 20 secs)

Other than that, it is still dropping out, but not as often. Has done it to the Wife a few times same situation as it happened to me, backing out of drive. Once while driving.
 
Can't wait to get home and spend some time trouble shooting and figure it out. I will keep you posted.

Cheers,Tony.
16/Mar/2014, 7:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Exywarrior Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2011
Location: Darwin, NT
TOTAL POSTS: 325
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Re: Re:


quote:

Bert n Ernie wrote:

- Tested the pump under the hood after it conked out on me backing out of driveway. Used the hand prime pump (? right term?), it had no fuel in it when started pumping. After a few pumps it would feel full, but could hear it draining off, it seemed to retain the same firmness but get no harder. It started after this, but still took a bit of turning over (maybe 10 to 20 secs)




Tony, I really think you either have a problem with a fuel pump or you have air getting into the fuel line from somewhere. The symptoms you describe, and the fact that using the priming bulb seems to fix the problem (albeit temporarily) all seem to point to the same thing.

I would strongly recommend you spend the time and money to let a Nissan mechanic look at it. Might save you a whole heap of heartache and bring back some trouble-free motoring.

---
Mark T
2011 Series 4 T31 TL Auto - Twilight, factory towbar, factory mats, tinting, Cooper CS5s, cathodic protection, paint protection, yada yada...and no Provent
X-2099
17/Mar/2014, 10:09 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
popeclement Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Perth, WA
TOTAL POSTS: 476
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Re: Re:


Concur with Mark. I think the issue may be quite straightforward to find - check all connections to the filter and make sure they are pushed in tightly. Also make sure the drain valve on the filter is tight.

Remove the plastic engine cover, forage around and look for the fuel connection to the high pressure fuel pump on the RHS of the engine. Make sure there is no obvious signs of diesel leakage.

Finally if you are up to it, lift up the rear seats, remove the felt lining that reveals the covers for the tank fuel pump(s) under both RH & LH seats. The RHS has the fuel delivery and return lines to the filter in the engine bay and the hand priming pump. Note any fuel seepage though you would have smelt it long ago.





---
X-916, VW Golf 90TSi manual, limestone grey, no extras
2008 TL dc i, manual, twilight; full set bash plates, jaos strut bar
- traded
29/Mar/2014, 8:11 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 


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