Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/t128533 Runboard| Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 09:45:36 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 09:45:36 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048611,from=rss#post2048611https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048611,from=rss#post2048611After doing some more research I have found the solutions to my filming problems. The first is to film from the center of the forward roof rack. This places the camera over the center of the car where bumps will be minimized. The second is to use a CCD video camera instead of a CMOS video camera. Tested my old Panasonic 3 CCD NV-GS400 against my Canon HG20. The Panasonic was much better at handling bumps. It seems that CMOS sensors, found on most cameras these days are particularly bad with bumps and vibrations. Do a seach of CCD vs CMOS with vibrations on You Tube and you will see some really good examples. I'll be getting a 3 CCD HD camera ASAP. The third is to deflate the tyres. I use 14psi. The fourth is to use Virtual Dub’s Deshaker. A free program which cam remove most bumps and shakes. The fifth, if all else fails, buy a gyroscopic stabiliser. They are very expensive but professional photographers all use them these days. Look up Kenyon on the web to find more about them. $2000 USD for small one. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:04:36 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047507,from=rss#post2047507https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047507,from=rss#post2047507I have found a partial solution. Its a fee program which I used to use many years ago called Virtual Dub. It now has a free plugin called DeShaker. You load your video into Virtual Dub (unfortunately it wouldn't load AVCHD, so I used Sony Vegas to render it as a high quality AVI file first). You then load the DeShaker plugin and run it. After the first run you then run the second step. After this you have a video that is free from almost all shakes. The only ones it couldn't cope with are the short sharp jolts, though by manipulating the settings it still may be able to deal with these. The improvement in video stability is very impressive. Much better than the commercial programs. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:34:38 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047453,from=rss#post2047453https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047453,from=rss#post2047453Tried filming from the C5. Unfortunately quite a few of the bumps in the road were transmitted to the cabin, jolting the video. Not sure if its any better than the X-trail. Will test the same roads when I get the X-Trail back on Friday. 235/75 15" wheels may be the answer after all. Cheaper anyway. Also my wife didn't like the C5 much. Yes I'm pretty keen to make good quality cycling videos for the Tacx trainer. I have an outlet to sell them in Germany. I have one selling at the moment but another (up Mt Wellington) was rejected because it was just too bumpy. I also use them for my own training.nondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:46:49 +0000 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047381,from=rss#post2047381https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047381,from=rss#post2047381Geez Barry, You must be keen about this filming thing if you are going to get a car for it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (cooch t31)Mon, 01 Nov 2010 04:35:54 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047362,from=rss#post2047362https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047362,from=rss#post2047362Will be looking at a Citroen C5 tomorrow with the view to swapping my wifes Getz with one. They have Hydractive 3 Pneumatic Suspension which might be the answer to filming on southern Tassies bumpy roads. Spoke to Pedders suspension about air shocks for the X-trail and they said that nothing was available. Hence I'm looking at going down the Citreon path. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Sun, 31 Oct 2010 21:05:59 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047337,from=rss#post2047337https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047337,from=rss#post2047337quote:Translucidus wrote: Just an idea for a new Mod !!! Do you mean the suspension or the colour scheme? nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Sat, 30 Oct 2010 06:15:05 +0000 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047334,from=rss#post2047334https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047334,from=rss#post2047334They used to use the big F100 Ambulance vans. They couldn't have used a more firm vehicle. So it had to be in the camera which used to be mounted on the roof. I'm not a punter and that was a few years ago that I had noticed them driving around on the inside track. Probably updated with new technology, like a F250 nondisclosed_email@example.com (cooch t31)Sat, 30 Oct 2010 05:56:30 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047311,from=rss#post2047311https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047311,from=rss#post2047311Watching Top Gear the other day - in England, TV channels used old Citroens to mount thier cameras on for filming Horse Races by driving on the side track alongside the horses; nothing else was as smooth as the Citroen's Oleo-Pneumatic self leveling, 3 height selectable suspension. Just an idea for a new Mod !!! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Translucidus)Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:29:43 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047310,from=rss#post2047310https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047310,from=rss#post2047310Both of my cameras have optical image stabilizers and neither can cope with the very short time span of the jolts. I doubt whether any consumer camera's optical image stabiliser could cope. I think that the answer is to attach the camera firmly to the car. Any attempt to float the camera has resulted in vibration that is worse than the original jolts. I think the answer is larger aspect tyres at low pressure. My tests have certainly showed that reducing tyre pressure makes a huge improvement. It makes sense that the more air cushioning, the softer the ride. I'm interested in 15" wheels and 235/75 tyres. Posts in the oversize tyres section indicate that these will fit without rubbing. I'm also interested in adjustable air shock absorbers. Does anyone have any experience with these in terms of making a softer ride? Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:11:21 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047278,from=rss#post2047278https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047278,from=rss#post2047278Possible solution it has an image stabiliser built in....nondisclosed_email@example.com (rescue1)Wed, 27 Oct 2010 20:58:29 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047248,from=rss#post2047248https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047248,from=rss#post2047248Tried filming on the weekend, one camera on the bonnet and one on the roof. The one on the bonnet was very bad with lots of jolts. The one on the roof was much much better. I use suction cups to hold the cameras on. I've read up on CineSaddles and it seems that I may have packed my homemade version too tightly with bean bag balls. I've taken some out and will try again. Only trouble is that mt X-trail is in the panel beaters for 2 1/2 weeks now, getting a total re-spray. Will have to try it on my wife's Getz. Will attach the camera to a brick to give it more mass Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Mon, 25 Oct 2010 22:23:37 +0000 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047237,from=rss#post2047237https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047237,from=rss#post2047237In my truck I found out that having your tyre pressure high takes the bounce out of your wheels/tyres and the shocks dampen the vibration better as they arent fighting the bounce. Taking 5 cm of profile off our T31 tyres didnt make a huge difference to the vibration in our ride, it just feels harder when hitting the bigger bumps so I would try before buying the tyres if there is no other reason to purchase them. nondisclosed_email@example.com (rockmonger)Mon, 25 Oct 2010 12:01:12 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047201,from=rss#post2047201https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047201,from=rss#post2047201The rain held off so I just tested the home made CineSaddle. Unfortunately the video was worse with it than without. Too much vibration every time a slight bump came along. Without the CineSaddle, when attached firmly to the car via the roofrack or suction cups the jolts come and go without the vibration as the mass of the car to dampen the vibration. Back to the drawing board!  Maybe those bigger tyres are the answer. Having an extra 5cm of air to soften the blows, in combination with 14psi pressure looks the best candidate so far. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Sat, 23 Oct 2010 18:43:19 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047200,from=rss#post2047200https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047200,from=rss#post2047200I've just completed my home made mini CineSaddle. There's a few raindrops around so will have to wait until tomorrow to test it. Both of my cameras have optical image stabilisation but neither can cope with the very short lived jolts that come from a rough road surface. I have tried post processing image stabilisation such as Prodad Mercalli V1 and V2 but these didn't help at all. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:46:00 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047188,from=rss#post2047188https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047188,from=rss#post2047188I was talking to one of the guys at work this afternoon and showed him some of my off road video and he instantly let me know what my problem was - no in built image stabilizer, like the high end commercial cameras have. Seems stedicam is old hat these days electronic and optical image stabilizers are the go.nondisclosed_email@example.com (rescue1)Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:28:45 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047184,from=rss#post2047184https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047184,from=rss#post2047184Hi I'm in the process of making a mini CineSaddle, should have it finished and tested this weekend. I've got a test bumpy road nearby that I have used for different attempts at vibration reduction, so I can use this to test it. The best effect so far tested is reducing tyre pressure. I'll give an update once I've tested it. By the way, my X-Trail goes into the panel beaters on Monday for a total re-spray. Parking it at my workplace - The Hobart Zinc Works, it has acid mist damage on every single panel. The company refuses to pay up but the insurer (AMMI) will. In the future I'm going to have to park it 2 km down the road, or use a car cover. Has anyone suffered any damage from a car cover, I've heard that in windy weather they can chafe the paint. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Fri, 22 Oct 2010 21:15:43 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047168,from=rss#post2047168https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047168,from=rss#post2047168I'm with you Andyp. I suggested the same thing in response to the original post in the T31 oversize tyres thread quote:The cycle training videos made in Europe are not hand held, like the camermen on motorbikes you see in the tour de france Barry, I realise training videos are often filmed differently, hence the clarification in my original response "...footage from the tours are smooth because the cameras are hand held..." I was simply pointing out methods that are used (whatever the application) to achieve ultra-smooth footage - hand held shooting is obviously only one way and the cameraman has to be good! Back to suspension systems... Did you end up having a look at the Steadicam setups? I thought that could give you some good ideas in how to rig up a dampening system. As an engineer presented with a problem, I can't help putting some thought in If you have some time I reckon there are a few ways you could make up something reasonably economically to mount on the roof-racks. I think that CineSaddle thing could be an ok budget option - and like you said I'd be making one too, rather than paying the $350 for a manufactured beanbag and some tie-downs! I'll be interested to hear how your CineSaddle experiment goes (maybe post some before and after footage?).nondisclosed_email@example.com (JKS)Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:42:31 +0000 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047166,from=rss#post2047166https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047166,from=rss#post2047166A friend of mine got a suction cap to mount the camera inside the car for his race car, work well although a race track is smoother than public roads.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Mr Xtrail)Fri, 22 Oct 2010 09:10:52 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047156,from=rss#post2047156https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047156,from=rss#post2047156You need a suspension system for the camera. Something equivalent to a spring to absorb the deflection of the bumps and in parallel an equivalent to a gas strut to damp out the subsequent oscillations. Check yellowpages for professional camera supplies. You could makes you own, however there would be some trial and error to get the correct spring and damping rates to match the mass of your camera that will damp out both the big bumps and also the higher frequency vibrations.nondisclosed_email@example.com (andyp1971)Fri, 22 Oct 2010 06:12:34 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047148,from=rss#post2047148https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047148,from=rss#post2047148The video seems to have been filmed on fairly smooth roads which is fine for the mounting system I use (Camzilla), when I get off road the wieght hanging from the sunction mount amplifies the vibration. I'm going to try a different mount on the centre console and see if that helps. Oversize tyres unless they are a ballon type running at low pressures won't solve the vibration.nondisclosed_email@example.com (rescue1)Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:04:27 +0000 Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047146,from=rss#post2047146https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047146,from=rss#post2047146Hi Jalal I've got a Canon HG20 and a Samsung H200. I use a x 0.45 wide angle lens with both. The Samsung can film in 50p so I can drive at twice the speed of a cyclist. The Canon shoots at 25p so I have to travel no faster that 15 km/h that a cyclist could or else the frame rate in the video gets too low. I make the videos in 720 x 1280 for the Tacx Fortius trainer. 1920 x 1080 makes the videos too large. I had a bad accident on my bicycle 2 years ago (broke my back and collarbone) and now my wife has banned me from riding on the road. So I have my bike hooked up to my computer and ride the courses I have made (along with many others purchased courses of roads in Europe). I film with a gps that measures the speed and altitude every second. I use this data to make files that the Tacx program can link to the video. Riding the course is then very realistic. I generally ride for an hour a day and use around 3000 KJ per hour. I did a bit of research this evening and may have found the answer to the jolts. Its called the Cine saddle, http://vimeo.com/1260938. Its pretty simple to make one. I'm going to give it a go. It may save me the expense and hassle of getting bigger tyres and smaller wheels. Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:04:10 +0000 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047141,from=rss#post2047141https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047141,from=rss#post2047141Hi Barry, What type of camera are you using for this?nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:50:09 +0000 Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roadshttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047138,from=rss#post2047138https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047138,from=rss#post2047138This is in response to an entry I made in the oversize tyres section re fitting oversize tyres to reduce jolts while filming. Firstly, I have tried filming from the roof rack and from the dashboard but jolts from rough rides are a problem no matter where I film from. Filming from the bonnet means nice clear vision without the need to edit out the bonnet and other bits in the way. Also reflection from the windscreen is not a problem (though this can be countered with a black cloth over the dash). I use suction cups to mount the camera which provide a very tight connection to the bonnet. The reason I think that oversize tyres will help is that having more air will provide more cushioning. Low profile tyres give a very rough ride while high profile tyres give a much smoother ride. It stands to reason that the higher the profile, the softer the ride. Will 235/75 R15 tyres fit on the X-trail??? Bob Jane has Kuhmos of this size for $159. I've tried all sorts of damping. Rubber, sponge, etc but vibration is a problem whereas when fixed solidly to the car via bolting to the roof rack or suction cups on the bonnet, vibration is not a problem. I've been thinking about constructing a wing which can ride on air, sliding up and down on at least 3 bolts. With the camera mounted on the wing this would effectively isolate it from the bumps. I have a few other ideas to try as well though all my my attempts so far haven't worked very well. The cycle training videos made in Europe are not hand held, like the camermen on motorbikes you see in the tour de france. Most are fixed to the car, some on the dash, some on the roof. The occasional bump comes along though generally the roads are near perfect. Around Hobart we have been a non marginal seat for too long and you can tell by comparing the condition of the roads in the south with those in the marginal seats in the north of Tasmania. Can someone answer my question re having different size tyres on the front and back as long as you stay in 2wd? Barrynondisclosed_email@example.com (BarryF3)Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:28:22 +0000