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BarryF3 Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 53
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Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


This is in response to an entry I made in the oversize tyres section re fitting oversize tyres to reduce jolts while filming.

Firstly, I have tried filming from the roof rack and from the dashboard but jolts from rough rides are a problem no matter where I film from. Filming from the bonnet means nice clear vision without the need to edit out the bonnet and other bits in the way. Also reflection from the windscreen is not a problem (though this can be countered with a black cloth over the dash). I use suction cups to mount the camera which provide a very tight connection to the bonnet.
The reason I think that oversize tyres will help is that having more air will provide more cushioning. Low profile tyres give a very rough ride while high profile tyres give a much smoother ride. It stands to reason that the higher the profile, the softer the ride.

Will 235/75 R15 tyres fit on the X-trail??? Bob Jane has Kuhmos of this size for $159.

I've tried all sorts of damping. Rubber, sponge, etc but vibration is a problem whereas when fixed solidly to the car via bolting to the roof rack or suction cups on the bonnet, vibration is not a problem. I've been thinking about constructing a wing which can ride on air, sliding up and down on at least 3 bolts. With the camera mounted on the wing this would effectively isolate it from the bumps. I have a few other ideas to try as well though all my my attempts so far haven't worked very well.

The cycle training videos made in Europe are not hand held, like the camermen on motorbikes you see in the tour de france. Most are fixed to the car, some on the dash, some on the roof. The occasional bump comes along though generally the roads are near perfect. Around Hobart we have been a non marginal seat for too long and you can tell by comparing the condition of the roads in the south with those in the marginal seats in the north of Tasmania.

Can someone answer my question re having different size tyres on the front and back as long as you stay in 2wd?

Barry
21/Oct/2010, 4:28 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Hi Barry,

What type of camera are you using for this?

---

21/Oct/2010, 6:50 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
BarryF3 Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 53
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


Hi Jalal
I've got a Canon HG20 and a Samsung H200. I use a x 0.45 wide angle lens with both. The Samsung can film in 50p so I can drive at twice the speed of a cyclist. The Canon shoots at 25p so I have to travel no faster that 15 km/h that a cyclist could or else the frame rate in the video gets too low. I make the videos in 720 x 1280 for the Tacx Fortius trainer. 1920 x 1080 makes the videos too large.
I had a bad accident on my bicycle 2 years ago (broke my back and collarbone) and now my wife has banned me from riding on the road. So I have my bike hooked up to my computer and ride the courses I have made (along with many others purchased courses of roads in Europe). I film with a gps that measures the speed and altitude every second. I use this data to make files that the Tacx program can link to the video. Riding the course is then very realistic. I generally ride for an hour a day and use around 3000 KJ per hour.

I did a bit of research this evening and may have found the answer to the jolts. Its called the Cine saddle, http://vimeo.com/1260938. Its pretty simple to make one. I'm going to give it a go. It may save me the expense and hassle of getting bigger tyres and smaller wheels.

Barry
21/Oct/2010, 10:04 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
rescue1 Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 1384
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


The video seems to have been filmed on fairly smooth roads which is fine for the mounting system I use (Camzilla), when I get off road the wieght hanging from the sunction mount amplifies the vibration. I'm going to try a different mount on the centre console and see if that helps. Oversize tyres unless they are a ballon type running at low pressures won't solve the vibration.

---
Alan & Phillipa
2008 X-Trail TL White Diamond
Plumpton NSW
Our Mods
X-1112 (C)

22/Oct/2010, 1:04 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
andyp1971 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2010
Location: Ashwood, Melbourne
TOTAL POSTS: 174
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


You need a suspension system for the camera.
Something equivalent to a spring to absorb the deflection of the bumps and in parallel an equivalent to a gas strut to damp out the subsequent oscillations.
Check yellowpages for professional camera supplies. You could makes you own, however there would be some trial and error to get the correct spring and damping rates to match the mass of your camera that will damp out both the big bumps and also the higher frequency vibrations.

---
:) andyp

Toot toot chugga chugga big Flint car!

X-1628(c)
2010 T31 TS Flint, nudgie with bright eyes, light/bonnet protectors, mats, mud tray, parking beepy thing, tow, f/d/r boing plates, buggle-seat & window sox
22/Oct/2010, 6:12 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Mr Xtrail Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2008
Location: Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 393
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Re:


A friend of mine got a suction cap to mount the camera inside the car for his race car, work well although a race track is smoother than public roads.

---
2008 T31 TL DCI 6 Speed Manual X-Trail (x-1083)
with JAOS Strut Bar, K&N filter, Mats, Rubber Boot Liner, Tints, Cargo Barrier, Towbar, glove box light, dashmat, Geo ATS 225/60/17 & now with babyseat

22/Oct/2010, 9:10 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
JKS Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 43
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


I'm with you Andyp. I suggested the same thing in response to the original post in the T31 oversize tyres thread emoticon

quote:

The cycle training videos made in Europe are not hand held, like the camermen on motorbikes you see in the tour de france



Barry, I realise training videos are often filmed differently, hence the clarification in my original response "...footage from the tours are smooth because the cameras are hand held..." emoticon I was simply pointing out methods that are used (whatever the application) to achieve ultra-smooth footage - hand held shooting is obviously only one way and the cameraman has to be good!

Back to suspension systems...

Did you end up having a look at the Steadicam setups? I thought that could give you some good ideas in how to rig up a dampening system. As an engineer presented with a problem, I can't help putting some thought in emoticon If you have some time I reckon there are a few ways you could make up something reasonably economically to mount on the roof-racks.

I think that CineSaddle thing could be an ok budget option - and like you said I'd be making one too, rather than paying the $350 for a manufactured beanbag and some tie-downs!

I'll be interested to hear how your CineSaddle experiment goes (maybe post some before and after footage?).

---
John
2005 Manual ST
(nudge bar, roof racks, tow bar)
22/Oct/2010, 9:42 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
BarryF3 Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 53
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


Hi
I'm in the process of making a mini CineSaddle, should have it finished and tested this weekend. I've got a test bumpy road nearby that I have used for different attempts at vibration reduction, so I can use this to test it. The best effect so far tested is reducing tyre pressure.
I'll give an update once I've tested it.

By the way, my X-Trail goes into the panel beaters on Monday for a total re-spray. Parking it at my workplace - The Hobart Zinc Works, it has acid mist damage on every single panel. The company refuses to pay up but the insurer (AMMI) will. In the future I'm going to have to park it 2 km down the road, or use a car cover. Has anyone suffered any damage from a car cover, I've heard that in windy weather they can chafe the paint.

Barry
22/Oct/2010, 9:15 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
rescue1 Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 1384
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


I was talking to one of the guys at work this afternoon and showed him some of my off road video and he instantly let me know what my problem was - no in built image stabilizer, like the high end commercial cameras have. Seems stedicam is old hat these days electronic and optical image stabilizers are the go.

---
Alan & Phillipa
2008 X-Trail TL White Diamond
Plumpton NSW
Our Mods
X-1112 (C)

23/Oct/2010, 6:28 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
BarryF3 Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 53
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Re: Filming from an X-trail - problem with rough roads


I've just completed my home made mini CineSaddle. There's a few raindrops around so will have to wait until tomorrow to test it.

Both of my cameras have optical image stabilisation but neither can cope with the very short lived jolts that come from a rough road surface.

I have tried post processing image stabilisation such as Prodad Mercalli V1 and V2 but these didn't help at all.

Barry
23/Oct/2010, 5:46 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 


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