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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Hi Guys,

Keep watching this thread for updates regarding the design of a brand new exhaust system for the T31 exy emoticon

Day 1
=========

The first day of the Hi-Tech exhaust system design included a visit by Andrew and I to the Hi-Tech shop in Sydney, so we could figure out the best way to have the muffler system fitted on it and also check if it's possible to fit the extractors set-up to the T31.

Lambros (Hi-Tech owner) got the Andrew's T31 on the hoist and after looking under the car, we saw the recovery hook on the right side and we thought, what a bad position as it will prevent the twins from sitting perfectly.

This is when Lambros suggested that we only do a straight through muffler upgrade for the T31 with twin outlets on one side and I didn't like this suggestion and insisted we do the twins set-up just like the T30 emoticon

After a bit of research on the net, I showed Lambros a system that was designed in Germany for the T31 that had twins, so we picked-up some ideas from that and decided to leave the recovery hook where it is and have the twin mufflers come-out right next to it after cutting the bumper a bit and it will look perfect.

Here is a rough example:

Image

So that the cat back system for the T31 sorted and we will proceed designing it this way when we go to Bathurst next week.

We inspected the front of the car, SHOCK & HORROR emoticon

The DPF is right up there in the engine bay and then the pipe comes down to a flexi joint and into another cat.converter under the car that has two O2 sensors in the T31 diesel.

As soon as we saw that, Lambros said, there is no chance of designing an extractors system for the T31 diesel without causing major problems to the ECU due to so many sensors and exhaust restrictions involved, so the bad news for T31 diesel owners is that the Hi-Tech system will only be available to you as a Cat. Back System.

Which is good in a way, as the cat. back system doesn't impact on your warranty and will not void it, but you can't have the full exhaust system replacement and I don't think the T31 diesel really needs it (I will tell you why later)

We then stayed and chatted with Lambros a bit to plan our trip to Bathurst next week and he called the dyno place to book us for the {before) run, so off we went to the dyno place at Marickville.

Got the dyno place OK after a drive through the city and following the directions of the GPS as I got lost by that stage having not driven in the city before LOL emoticon

The dyno used in this place is a new type which is considered to be the most accurate to get the readings as it uses stand-alone hub rotators (not sure of the exact name) that get bolted onto each hub using the wheel studs. Just like this:

Image

Here are some pics of Andrew's T31 during the dyno run

Image Image Image

Now to the most important piece of information which just shocked me!!!

As we know, the T31 diesel (manual transmission) factory (flywheel) figures are as follows:

127KW @ 3,750RPM
360Nm @ 2,000RPM

The T31 Diesel X-Trail (at the wheels) figures are:

114.3KW @ 3,768RPM
329Nm @ 2,522RPM


This means that the T31 diesel drive-train is so efficient that there is almost no loss of power and torque as a result, which is awesome news indeed and I can only imagine what the cat. back system will produce when fitted to this T31 emoticon

Day 1 finished, so stay tuned for further updates after our trip to Bathurst next week emoticon

Last edited by jalalski, 8/Aug/2009, 8:57 am


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7/Aug/2009, 9:30 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
basshead Profile
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X-TRAIL HOLIC
 


Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Not sure if this is going to be the correct thread to post comments regarding the dyno testing... The replies may have to be moved to an existing dyno thread or start a new one specific to this particular dyno.

My thoughts are probably similar to what I've mentioned in previous threads; specifically the the "unexpected" higher "at-the-wheels" figures. The wheels were removed, and the amount of "drivetrain" losses they have is considerable. I believe the reason the dyno company/tester claims it's more accurate is due to all cars of the same type being more accurately compared as the weight of the various wheels used on various cars is eliminated from the equation. I'm sure if you used a standard "rolling drum" dyno with two identical engined X-Trails but one with standard alloys and one with aftermarket wheels, the one with the alloys is likely to achieve a higher kW output due the lighter weight of the factory alloys and tyre combination. Both of them would also be considerably lower than the result obtained on the new dyno. The fact that the readings are closer to the vehicle's stated spec's is expected when you remove part of the drivetrain.

I'm not disputing the claims made by this dyno, and I think it's a step in the right direction for consistency, but it doesn't necessarily relate to real world or on-the-road acceleration/performance. But I suppose if you want to test for that, you need to use the right device (g-tech or other accelerometer) - speaking of which - Jalal, if it's still in your glovebox, you might want to give it a "before and after" workout, but don't use Foreshore Dr Mascot as it's a construction sped limit emoticon The stretch of road between RNP and Engadine would be your closest bet, but I'm not sure if there's any flat sections.



Also, did they disconnect the 4WD clutch?

And Jalal, you should've got yours dyno'ed on this new dyno emoticon


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Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
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7/Aug/2009, 10:48 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
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Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


As Rich said Jalal ... get yours done on this new dyno also.
That way you can compare the results from AutoTech where you had the piggy-back fitted and used the traditional "rolling drum" dyno to see if the new dyno does show different results because of having the wheels removed.

---
Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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dronus Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Excellent write up Jalal, and it was certainly a pleasure to meet you and Lambros today.

Im not a mechanic by any means but i think the results from the dyno today can best be summed up by the expression on the owner and technicians face when they finished the dyno test. They seemed quite impressed by the results from the testing.

We discussed the difference between traditional drive-on wheel-roller testing and the "dyno-pac" testing where the tests are conducted by the individual units coupled to each hub and the associated losses in each method. The testing today is the latest technolgy int dyno testing and eliminates differences caused by the type of tyre or wheel fitted to the car as it is tested at the hub,

It would be interesting too see the results from re-testing your car too emoticon

The GPS did seem to want to take us on a more scenic route through Sydney, but we made it on time (just!)

I look forward to the trip to Bathurst next week and the fitting of the cat-back system which i think is going to look and perform very well!

-dronus

---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
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Date Registered: 06-2008
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 5966
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Also take to mind that the newer the car is, the dyno reading will be close to those released figures from the car manufacturer.
Obviously as the car gets older, (fact of life ha), the figures will get worse as to total power output.

I also agree with Rich and Kev's remarks that the drum dyno will give more real time figures..

The pipes will look good in those cut outs Andrew.
I thought that they would have run a side by side set up.



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Tony X-891c

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HERE is my old 2008 T31, ST Series1

8/Aug/2009, 7:49 am Link to this post Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Don't worry guys, I have already mentioned this to Andrew yesterday and told him that I will bring my exy to have it dynoed in that place to compare the results. My exy was previously tuned at AutoTech with 19" rims, so am sure there would have been a bit of a loss there due to the size of the wheels which this dyno method will eliminate.

Now that we gonna use this dyno for the "after" results when we fit the cat back system to Andrew's T31 diesel exy, am sure we will get consistent results which will clearly show us the gains.

Jim from the dyno place was certainly impressed with the T31 and said that the gearbox is awesome to produce such a torque without any modifications on the diesel. He also mentioned that after fitting the cat. back system there is more potential in this diesel with fitting a diesel chip made in Germany to give even more power (more on that in a different thread)

Tony, what do you mean by "side by side set-up" ?

This is the only possible set-up of the exhaust system on the T31 without cutting the recovery hook, which I believe is important as it is bolted on as well as spot welded, so it is indeed rated and pretty strong. Am sure most T31 owners would rather keep this recovery hook rather than loose it.

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cooch t31 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2008
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 5966
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


What I meant was where the original muffler and exhaust is, that you would have 2 pipes with 2 outlets running along side each other joining behind the rear diff.
Twin pipes running along side by side.

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Tony X-891c

HERE is my D22 Navara
HERE is my old 2008 T31, ST Series1

8/Aug/2009, 8:12 am Link to this post Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


That's what will happen Tony, the photo above is just an illustration of where the outlets will sit, the main pipe will follow the factory one to the same position where the factory muffler is and it will have a smaller sports muffler sitting there, from it another pipe will branch out in front of the rear diff (behind the spare wheel well) to go to the right side outlet. It's not possible to position 2 outlets side by side (i.e. quad outlet set-up like BMW X5) on the T31 due to no room on the right side where the recovery hook is.

We also thought of putting 2 mufflers (one on each side), but again it wasn't possible due to the recovery hook and will introduce more restrictions.

By the way, Andrew has a huge dent in his factory muffler, so this proves that despite Nissan's attempt to position the muffler as high as possible on the T31, it is still low and exposed to damage.

Last edited by jalalski, 8/Aug/2009, 8:32 am


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dronus Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Mmmm quad pipes....
We did also see some tail pipes that were more square that matched the square, rugged looks of the exy. They looked pretty cool, but Jalal will probably still have sore hands from when Lambros kept slapping him every time he picked something up and putting it under the car emoticon

Did you get any pics of those ones Jalal?

The tail pipes do look good, i was concerned at first that it would look too much like a captiva rear end but it didnt emoticon

---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
Older - '04 T30 Ti-L Auto
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8/Aug/2009, 9:20 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Re: Hi-Tech X-Trail Cat. Back System (T31 X-TRAIL)


Yeah, am sure there are nicer muffler tips on the market, especially the square AMG (Mercedes) ones that I saw at Hi-Tech, but these are pretty expensive and would have to be imported and Lambros prefers to use the ones he manufactures at Bathurst that are readily available. Am sure T31 owners would be able to change those tips to anything they like down the track and get any muffler shop to weld them in. That is what I have done with mine anyway and Lambros nearly killed me for it LOL emoticon

But don't worry Andrew, the guys at Bathurst will have a greater selection at the factory and I'll find something there for you. I always do LOL emoticon You just have to keep Lambros occupied when they weld them in so he doesn't kill me emoticon

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