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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


Dronus,

Looks like they will have to replace your ECU mate, as suggested in the troubleshooting procedure to determine if the ECU is not sending the required signal to the DPF to start the regeneration.

---

2/Jan/2009, 8:29 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
dronus Profile
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X-TRAIL LEGEND
 


Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


Well yep, im not exactly sure what happened in the end. I had a nice nearly 5 hour stay at lakeside and the light is off.

In the end the DPF regeneration failed 4 times. They melted 2 exhaust extractor fans from my hot exhaust. I cant help but think that either my DPF was really blocked or the regeneration just wasn't happening. I did see a few delivery trucks rock up so im not sure what new parts (if any) i have. The Tech would not mention that anything was wrong on the Nissan side, but i did learn alot about DPF's and how they work.

Few little tid bits i picked up while talking to the foreman:

The T31 Diesel X-trail is the first Manual diesel to have a DPF fitted.

They were only fitted to auto's before and they had a heap of trouble with tradesman's navara's in sydney when they kept getting blocked up as they were rarely taken for long enough drives (the Navara's got blocked up, not the tradesmen!)

The X-Trail uses an automatic sensing system to continuously burn the soot off the DPF. The ECU continuously checks to see if the criteria is being met to start a regen. The criteria includes vehicle speed, engine temperature and no load. I'm not confident (yet) that once the engine light comes on due to high levels of soot that the regen's continue to be attempted automatically. This could not be confirmed.

The sensing system basically comprises of pressure sensors which monitor both sides of the Cat. If the pressure is higher at the front, its probably blocked

The burning off is basically done by allowing fuel to get to the DPF, where it ignites and burns off the soot. If you have poor quality fuel, this makes things worse.

Fuel quality is very important. "If it doesn't smell like diesel, don't use it". Never use bio-diesel and often the best places to fill up are the ones that the truckies use.

Take your diesel car for a decent drive often, it will give it a chance to completely burn all the gunk out. If you are in Adelaide and want to go for a decent drive, lets get a trip organised! emoticon

Once the service regen is kicked off in the workshop it takes 40 minutes to complete and it cannot be stopped. If it fails they have to wait approx 7 mins for the vehicle systems to complete their self checks, then they can start again. Once the regen is complete the oil and filter gets changed.

Well thats about it for this adventure (I hope). I have confidence in the team at lakeside, alot of important data was sent from my car to the Techlan to help anyone else who has this problem rear its head in the future. They did offer me loan cars etc but i wanted to learn about the car and how it works.

If you want to ask me any other questions, feel free. the service manual is also a good resource as well as various online wiki's.

Cheers,

Dronus

---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
Older - '04 T30 Ti-L Auto
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2/Jan/2009, 11:18 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
popeclement Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Perth, WA
TOTAL POSTS: 476
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


Thks Dronus for your write up on this problem.

Interesting to note the criteria the ECU evaluates to do the regen as well as the comments on fuel - mine has always had a diet of BP Ultimate Diesel here in the West, as well as at least one long 400km stint per month.

So the question remains if there is indeed unburnt fuel that the DPF is not burning off - where is it going, or whether the regen cycle is not being triggered at all, causing a build up of soot which I would have thought results in greater back pressure and associated fuel consumption/engine performance issues. something here does not gel particularly with your reported consumption figures.

I have also noticed that my consumption figures may be fine for a while, but after an extended city cycle they start increasing to almost 9 till I do a long run when they drop back to around 7.4.

John

---
X-916, VW Golf 90TSi manual, limestone grey, no extras
2008 TL dc i, manual, twilight; full set bash plates, jaos strut bar
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3/Jan/2009, 7:28 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
dronus Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


Hi John,

Yep i agree. I guess we will find out over the coming weeks if my regen light comes back on.
I was thinking about going for a belt over to Melbourne or Sydney in the coming weeks to give it a good run.
I noticed at my regular BP they now have BP Ultimate as an option on the console. Funny fuel related story - I filled up yesterday from the BP thinking that they would use alot of fuel doing the regeneration - when i went inside to pay for it on the fuel card the operator starts freaking out saying that i cant buy diesel on the card, and perhaps i have put the wrong fuel in my car, and how silly i am because there is signs everywhere saying it is diesel and blah blah (in an Indian accent of course!) I mentioned that im pretty sure its a diesel car, ive put diesel in it before and that putting unleaded in it would be a really bad idea..
Turns out he had hit the Ultimate Diesel button on the console instead of the normal Diesel button. Bit weird as there is no ultimate diesel there, but the first receipt had a c/pl of about 25cents more? Is that about right?
Anyway, i digress, lets see how the regen goes over the next month or so. Ill post back into this thread if anything happons.

Thanks for reading emoticon

-Dronus

---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
Older - '04 T30 Ti-L Auto
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3/Jan/2009, 8:10 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


quote:

dronus wrote:
They melted 2 exhaust extractor fans from my hot exhaust.



Sorry Dronus, what do you mean by this?

quote:

The Tech would not mention that anything was wrong on the Nissan side,



Did they tell you what did they actually change or replace as part of this 5 hour process and is it mentioned in the service invoice? I'm not sure why they're being so secretive about it??

As part of the regeneration failure maintenance procedure, the ECU would have needed replacement to isolate the problem, so it would be interesting to know if they have done this step and if you now have the replacement ECU or your original one that got inserted back after the replacement ECU triggered the regeneration. This will determine if you're to have this problem again and very soon or if you car drive knowing that you have new replacement parts. I would have insisted on knowing this for sure for my own curiosity and to make sure that it wasn't a patch-up job.

Reading further about the DPF HERE I can't help but think that while it is the perfect answer for emission controls and it is the main reason Nissan calls the X-Trail as the Clean Diesel vehicle, it is in fact worse than the standard catalytic converter and has much more potential for problems and damage, let alone the restriction to power it introduces as it is not a high flow device like a cat. converter.



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3/Jan/2009, 8:20 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
popeclement Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Perth, WA
TOTAL POSTS: 476
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


Jalal

Been doing some reading on this and both the petrol and diesel engines have a 3 way cat convertor with the DPF on the diesel an additional item.

I think cat convertors per se are power robbing devices, but an essential item to reduce emissions. For Euro 1V & V compliance we now have no choice but to also have DPFs on diesels. (My 1967 Hillman Arrow has no emission controls - not even a crankcase breather return! It also only has three main fuses - I digress!)

I think this was one of the reasons for the reluctance of several manufacturers particularly European to delay the introduction of their Euro compliant diesels till Australia's diesel quality met the low sulphur content requirements.

However diesels do like long cycle operation rather than frequent stop start and this should be factored into any purchase including their higher maintenance costs.

John emoticon

---
X-916, VW Golf 90TSi manual, limestone grey, no extras
2008 TL dc i, manual, twilight; full set bash plates, jaos strut bar
- traded
3/Jan/2009, 3:20 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5944
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Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


quote:

popeclement wrote:
I have also noticed that my consumption figures may be fine for a while, but after an extended city cycle they start increasing to almost 9 till I do a long run when they drop back to around 7.4.



Sounds like your regen is working well on the long runs then.

quote:

dronus wrote:
Take your diesel car for a decent drive often, it will give it a chance to completely burn all the gunk out. If you are in Adelaide and want to go for a decent drive, lets get a trip organised! emoticon



Not only Adelaide.
This might be a great idea for all the T31 owners to have a regular monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly meeting just to give their DPFs a good chance to regen.

---
Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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3/Jan/2009, 4:48 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


quote:

dronus wrote:
Take your diesel car for a decent drive often, it will give it a chance to completely burn all the gunk out. If you are in Adelaide and want to go for a decent drive, lets get a trip organised! emoticon



quote:

Revhead Kev wrote:
Not only Adelaide.
This might be a great idea for all the T31 owners to have a regular monthly, bi-monthly or quarterly meeting just to give their DPFs a good chance to regen.



The best thing to do is to drive it hard from time to time and don't be scared to press on the pedal at the lights or on the highway to give some V8s a run for their money, then am sure you won't have any soot problem emoticon You might burn a little more fuel doing it, but it has to be done from time to time to clean-up the system emoticon



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dronus Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


quote:

X-Trail as the Clean Diesel vehicle,



yep its Euro 5 compliant so it must have a DPF. Citroen have had them circa 2002 so i guess Renault shouldn't be too different. All new diesels in Australia from 2010 must have them fitted. Some countries have also mandated retrofit programs for older vehicles.

quote:

it would be interesting to know if they have done this step and if you now have the replacement ECU or your original one that got inserted back after the replacement ECU triggered the regeneration



Im getting a copy of the service invoice posted to me which had all of the notes on it. Ill check it out. Ill also call them on Monday and ask, out of curiosity.

quote:

I think this was one of the reasons for the reluctance of several manufacturers particularly European to delay the introduction of their Euro compliant diesels till Australia's diesel quality met the low sulphur content requirements.



It was also to do with the truck manufacturers getting cranky about it. Check out a new semi trailer truck when he takes off compared to a 10 year old one, heaps cleaner! Must be more maintenance too.

I'm all up for regular X-Trail outings. Will be taking mine to Kangaroo Island in a couple of weeks, wonder if that counts as an overseas trip? "-)


quote:

(My 1967 Hillman Arrow has no emission controls


Either does my 1956 Wolseley 4/44! nothing but engine and exhaust pipe emoticon
Dronus's Wolseley pictures (major digress)

Cheers,

Dronus


---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
Older - '04 T30 Ti-L Auto
X-966
3/Jan/2009, 8:01 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
dronus Profile
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X-TRAIL LEGEND
 


Date Registered: 08-2008
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 541
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Particulate filter error resulting in MIL light


quote:

quote:
    dronus wrote:
    They melted 2 exhaust extractor fans from my hot exhaust.



Sorry Dronus, what do you mean by this?



The extractor fan in the workshop is connected to the car via a hose, and a plastic "thing" near the cars pipe. Mine managed to melt 2 of the "things". hope this makes sence?

---
Current - GU Patrol
Old - '08 T31 Platinum TL Diesel Manual - Bells and whistles.
Older - '04 T30 Ti-L Auto
X-966
3/Jan/2009, 8:03 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 


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