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basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

BillieWally wrote:

I have now Goodyear wranglers, 215/75 R15 tyres. Which I'm happy with wear wise. I did go through a set of A/T's Dueler's within 5000km, and that included rotating then around 2000km.




That's absolutely shocking tyre wear. Is that due to the surface driven on and/or driving style, or due to incorrect wheel alignment because of such a high lift?


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Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
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4/Jun/2007, 9:15 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
BillieWally Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 148
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Re: Suspension Lift


A bit hard to say but it I believe it's down to two things the tyres where too soft and the way it’s driven. As it was still doing the same type of work, with the new tyres and prior the mods (4WD Lockup) And not much wear. On dirt I travel around 130 - 120kph and used to get a lot of front wheel spin up hills.
Now that I can lock up the 4WD clutch at the touch of a button, I have been able to limit the front wheel chatter. Thus reducing front wheel wear.


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Limitation is a boundary set by the mind.
4/Jun/2007, 9:32 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 6115
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Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

BillieWally wrote:
On dirt I travel around 130 - 120kph and used to get a lot of front wheel spin up hills.



Where?
Doing what? emoticon

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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4/Jun/2007, 9:40 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
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Date Registered: 09-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 148
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Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

Revhead Kev wrote:

quote:

BillieWally wrote:
On dirt I travel around 130 - 120kph and used to get a lot of front wheel spin up hills.



Where?
Doing what? emoticon



Rural Driving. From home to town, out to a mates ect ect ect. 6 months ago we moved from Gove which was about 700km of dirt to get to the stuart highway, then 350km of seal to get to Darwin. we used to do that about 8 times a year. Then you had the normal bush work (camping and stuff).
Now live a bit closer to Darwin but still do about 400km of dirt a week.


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4/Jun/2007, 9:54 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

BillieWally wrote:

A bit hard to say but it I believe it's down to two things the tyres where too soft and the way it’s driven. As it was still doing the same type of work, with the new tyres and prior the mods (4WD Lockup) And not much wear. On dirt I travel around 130 - 120kph and used to get a lot of front wheel spin up hills.
Now that I can lock up the 4WD clutch at the touch of a button, I have been able to limit the front wheel chatter. Thus reducing front wheel wear.



Mate, no matter how soft a tyre is, there is no way you can go through an entire new set of tyres in 5,000kms without having major alignment problems. The Bridgestone A/T tyres are far from being soft and I have used a set in the most extreme off-road conditions and they performed faultlessly.

There was no wheel spin going up hills with these A/T tyres and they grabbed the ground like hell. The only way you'd experience this sort of wheel spin when your CV joints are on too great of an angle.

I reckon that by lifting your exy by 90mm, your CV joints are screaming for help.



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5/Jun/2007, 7:55 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
BillieWally Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 148
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

jalalski wrote:

quote:

BillieWally wrote:

A bit hard to say but it I believe it's down to two things the tyres where too soft and the way it’s driven. As it was still doing the same type of work, with the new tyres and prior the mods (4WD Lockup) And not much wear. On dirt I travel around 130 - 120kph and used to get a lot of front wheel spin up hills.
Now that I can lock up the 4WD clutch at the touch of a button, I have been able to limit the front wheel chatter. Thus reducing front wheel wear.



Mate, no matter how soft a tyre is, there is no way you can go through an entire new set of tyres in 5,000kms without having major alignment problems. The Bridgestone A/T tyres are far from being soft and I have used a set in the most extreme off-road conditions and they performed faultlessly.

There was no wheel spin going up hills with these A/T tyres and they grabbed the ground like hell. The only way you'd experience this sort of wheel spin when your CV joints are on too great of an angle.

I reckon that by lifting your exy by 90mm, your CV joints are screaming for help.




Jalalski
        Not to make this a slinging match, yes I did go through a set of tyres within 5000km & mainly due to wheel spin. (Having a larger angle on your CV’s and your wheels have been align, doesn’t play any part to wheel spin or alignment - please consult a few mechanics to confirm that.) I didn’t have lifted springs just the spacers when I had those tyres on. The wheels were aligned by Bob Jane T Mart in Darwin after the spacers where fitted, And they where happy with it.
    On the wheel spin side of it, many times I have had to back off on the accelerator to regain traction and steering, Even when I first got the vehicle – no mods. By memory the car became hard to handle when the wheel spin was about 10 to 15 kph faster then the actual speed. Now I hit the 4WD bypass when I feel wheel spin. And there is no more wheel spin. No more wear.


  emoticon

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Limitation is a boundary set by the mind.
5/Jun/2007, 10:01 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Suspension Lift


No offence to you mate, but with that type of driving, you can only go through a new set of tyres so quick in a Dakar Rally emoticon

On the spacers side of things and I have been asked this question by email to admin mailbox a lot, where guys were interested in this mod but found lack of feedback from current xtrailers running with them in this thread.

While some of you guys did decide to fit the spacer to gain the lift, not so many of you have posted the needed feedback about tyre wear when used for a period of time.

Having the alignment done with the spacers on will throw the factory alignment values off, so am not even sure what alignment values the tyre place uses to feel happy that the wheels are aligned??

Anyone got a print out of their alignment with the spacers on?

Last edited by jalalski, 5/Jun/2007, 1:35 pm


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Date Registered: 09-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 148
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Re: Suspension Lift


No Offence taken was just re-stating a few points.
 As to feed back on the spacers fitted, here we go.
I'll start from the beginning. This will only apply if all the rubbers, steering joints and bushes are still in good condition.

The X-trail has got McPherson strut style suspension. With this type, the camber angle will increased as the suspension extends (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). The caster angle doesn’t change during suspension travel, and most likely fixed (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). Now the toe in/out angle will change as the suspension extends and retracts. Now the only real adjustment that can be done on the xtrail is the toe in/out.

Now let’s introduce a spacer to the top of the strut. This will off set the Camber angle to a positive - (UNLESS THE SPACES HAVE BEEN CAMBER OFFSET). The Caster angle wouldn't have changed unless there has been a CASTER offset on the spacers. Now the toe in/out there will be a change. The vehicle sitting (at rest) there will be slight toe in (But is adjustable).

Now let’s just introduce the springs, no spacers. Now with the car at rest & no load. The Camber angle will increase, but still within the operating range - it will not sit outside the upper or lower limits. The Caster angle hasn’t change. And the toe in has increased slightly (But is adjustable).

Now what I have. Both the offset spacers and springs. The Camber angle has increase (due to the spring), but still within the specs. The Caster hasn’t changed at all. And the toe in has increased (from both the spacers and springs).
I'm not quite sure on the amount as I haven’t really bothered. But it has been adjusted to be within the spec's

Now for the angle of the CV's, I will get back to you all in two weeks. Thats when I get back from work.

Cheers

 emoticon

Last edited by BillieWally, 5/Jun/2007, 1:35 pm


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5/Jun/2007, 1:11 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

BillieWally wrote:
The X-trail has got McPherson strut style suspension. With this type, the camber angle will increased as the suspension extends (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). The caster angle doesn’t change during suspension travel, and most likely fixed (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). Now the toe in/out angle will change as the suspension extends and retracts. Now the only real adjustment that can be done on the xtrail is the toe in/out.



As per the factory service manual, the Camber and Caster are adjustable. The factory values (for both front and rear wheels) have been mentioned in THIS thread.

I would be interested to see your current values for the camber, caster and toe-in and compare them against the recommended factory values.



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5/Jun/2007, 1:43 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
BillieWally Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 148
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Suspension Lift


quote:

jalalski wrote:

quote:

BillieWally wrote:
The X-trail has got McPherson strut style suspension. With this type, the camber angle will increased as the suspension extends (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). The caster angle doesn’t change during suspension travel, and most likely fixed (NON SERVSABLE/ADJUSTABLE). Now the toe in/out angle will change as the suspension extends and retracts. Now the only real adjustment that can be done on the xtrail is the toe in/out.



As per the factory service manual, the Camber and Caster are adjustable. The factory values (for both front and rear wheels) have been mentioned in THIS thread.

I would be interested to see your current values for the camber, caster and toe-in and compare them against the recommended factory values.




Jalalski
Please have a good look at your manual, as it will state
* Camber, caster, and kingpin inclination angles cannot be adjusted, for the front suspension and
* Camber is preset at factory and cannot be adjusted, on the rear.

And also I’m a mechanic

What the manual refers to is if it's outside the spec's, locate and find the worn or damage componets.
I have had a full 4 wheel alignment two times, after the spacers and then springs.
The only thing that was out was the toe in. Everything else was still within spec's.

I hope I havn't lost you, as once you understand it is quite simple.


Last edited by BillieWally, 5/Jun/2007, 2:51 pm


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