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NPC73 Profile
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X-TRAIL HOLIC
 


Date Registered: 12-2004
Location: Mount Isa, QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 1247
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Re: First oil change


Perhaps this break in period was for new pre-2000 engines?

It was always imperative to ensure that an oil change was carried out at the first 1000kms, to remove steel filings, etc, from new engines. This is not a requirement anymore on current engines after year 2000.

My 04 Elantra got it's first oil change at 7500kms as per manufacturers warranty schedule.

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Noel...
Member ID: X-072 (Retired Administrator)
2003 X-trail, TI, Manual, (Series 1) - (with the works)
2013 Toyota Prado, Manual, Turbo Diesel - (Snorkel-K&N-Full Exhaust, 20" Low Profiles, Chrome Bullbar, HID Spots, + All the Bling!)
27/Aug/2006, 10:34 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
gjn200 Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Adelaide
TOTAL POSTS: 34
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Re: First oil change


Interestingly, I work for linde Forktrucks, now with VW engines ( one has a vr6!) and the advice from the manufactures in Germany is Synthetic from the first change, not from manufacture as its too good for the rings to bed in and you end up loosing performance.

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27/Aug/2006, 10:46 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Dave4x4 Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2005
Location: NEWCASTLE
TOTAL POSTS: 690
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Re: First oil change


I have never thought that the initial oil change had ever been for fileings to be removed unless I was building an engine from scratch but I would go through a extensive bedding in period with a mineral base oil for the engine before I put synthetic oil in but that would be for my car as I would want it to be right. As quoted
quote:

advice from the manufactures in Germany is Synthetic from the first change, not from manufacture as its too good for the rings to bed in and you end up loosing performance.

sound like good advise due to the rings needing to bed in and flatten out some cross hatching so you get less oil to pass the rings and better compression in the long run hence more power. This is the reason you can get a engine out of another car same model same K's and all put it in your car mated to the same gearbox but one has less or more power due to numerous things but one thing imparticular is how it has got to its amount of K's compared to the other engine initial driving style type/quality of oil and maintanace ect
5000km might be to much these days but my bedding in was done with a quality oil which I put in as soon as I got the Exy home
PS: have just read what you added to your post Jalal and just to reply every vehicle has cross hatching in the clyinder as keep oil there to lubricate the rings in a new car these are raised and need to be bed (ground down with the rings) to form a better seal still leaving galleries for oil lubrication but in turn gives a better seal for compression so either way its up to the individual as most people dont keep there cars more than a few years so they dont care

Last edited by Dave4x4, 27/Aug/2006, 3:10 pm


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(Dave Newcastle 2004 ST
ID: X211

27/Aug/2006, 3:01 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
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Re: First oil change


Dave,

The point I was trying to make and many reviews on net seem to go along with what I initially stated, that newly built engines in these days do NOT require the bed-in period at all, they're being bedded-in at the time of manufacturing.

Your theory is 100% correct with older type of engines.

Last edited by jalalski, 27/Aug/2006, 8:36 pm


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27/Aug/2006, 8:35 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Rated X Profile
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Date Registered: 04-2006
Location: Westie@Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 26
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Re: First oil change


The confusion become apparent when there was problems with LS1's on synthetic and Subaru RS engines that were burning their synthetic oils from rings not bedding in emoticon
27/Aug/2006, 9:50 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message ICQ MSN
 
Dave4x4 Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2005
Location: NEWCASTLE
TOTAL POSTS: 690
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Re: First oil change


quote:

The confusion become apparent when there was problems with LS1's on synthetic and Subaru RS engines that were burning their synthetic oils from rings not bedding in

These engines must have been pre 2000 (I know there not) or it must be they do not have cross hatching anymore emoticon
They must use a different type of honing after 2000
 

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(Dave Newcastle 2004 ST
ID: X211

27/Aug/2006, 9:59 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
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Re: First oil change


quote:

Rated X wrote:

The confusion become apparent when there was problems with LS1's on synthetic and Subaru RS engines that were burning their synthetic oils from rings not bedding in emoticon



This was NOT caused by running these performance cars on synthetic, rather by these sort of cars not being driven "hard" enough which in turn caused glazed bores.

There was a memo about the LS1 from General in the US of A explaining the reasons behind it emoticon

As for the Subaru RS engine problems, this was an issue for those who kept switching between mineral and synthetic oils in that car, those who started of with a synthetic and stuck with it, didn't have such problems. That is what I know at least.

Always good to tell the full story.

And mate, you're driving a 4 cylinder xtrail LOL



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27/Aug/2006, 10:47 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
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Date Registered: 04-2006
Location: Westie@Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 26
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Re: First oil change


lol yeah I know its only a four cylinder but m not comparing engines here just the fact outlined about modern engines not needing a run -in period due to high tolerances and modern machining.
In regards to the LS1 motors the problem was not from not being driven hard enough causing the bores to glaze. It was from high rev/ low load driving causing uneven crankcase pressure that was letting oil past the rings. The problems were the rings spring ratings were too weak and were later redesigned to provide tighter sealing around the bores. The oil consumption problems with the Gen 3 were highlighted when using Synthetic oil and the advise from Holden to its customers were to use a thicker mineral oil to overcome oil usage problems.Then there were also other problems with piston slap from bad pistons.
In regards to the Subaru engines, having owned a RS turbo in the past and by using mobil 1 it caused an increase in lifter noise and oil consumption, the dealers had most engines including mine fixed under warranty with WrX heads and pistons to fix the problem.
quote:

I'm updating 'Oil Consumption Summary' as results come in. So far we have 20 H6 reports. Nark, using Mobil 1, is heaviest at 185ml/1000km (one rebuilt engine aside) a couple at 100ml/1000km and the rest negligible.

This is taken from owners in the Subaru forum.
Here are few facts I should have presented earlier.
 In conclusion not all modern engines are built to high tolerances or standards we hope or expect so that is why I choose to play it safe and wait a little longer before swithing to a full synthetic oil. Its good to know that the Xtrial doesnt have these probs because Nissan does make damn good engines look at all the A12's still chugging along emoticon
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Dave4x4 Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2005
Location: NEWCASTLE
TOTAL POSTS: 690
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Re: First oil change


Until such time as we get a document stating that the cars we buy have been run in prior to buying and they take out of the owners manual the statement do not load engine do not tow and no exsesive high reving or words to that effect I will still run in my engines.
I did this to my U13 Bluebird and 280000km later the engine was in perfect condition and had more power than other bluebirds I guess I was just lucky

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(Dave Newcastle 2004 ST
ID: X211

28/Aug/2006, 7:39 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
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Re: First oil change


Fair enough Dave & Gil,

I guess it is a personal preference and I understand that sometimes it is hard to trust the newer technology or believe it can do what it is advertised it would do having followed a certain process for so long.

For me personally, I trust what has been said about newer engines and I didn't brake-in the exy engine at all.

It was driven hard from the first moment I got it and I even went for a 1000km trip 2 days after I got the car from the dealers driving it at speeds of 110 and 120 kms and hour.

I guess we will have the chance to compare our engines against each other when we hit 280,000kms but I for one, planning to keep my exy for longer than that and that is why I switched to synthetic emoticon

My only regret is that it took me 50,000kms of driving on mineral oil to finally see the light and get convinced that full synthetic oil is the way to go.

Last edited by jalalski, 28/Aug/2006, 8:27 am


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28/Aug/2006, 8:22 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 


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