Page: 1 2 3
jalalski
Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
|
|
|
|
Re:
Thanks Max. The sums it up nicely and what I had in mind when I provided my response and suggested a V6 powered engine which will have more torque than the exy in most cases.
|
16/Aug/2013, 3:52 pm
|
|
kgb007
X-TRAIL NEWBIE
Date Registered: 04-2012
TOTAL POSTS: 34
|
|
|
|
Re:
For reference, cylinders DO NOT make a larger engine. They just make more cylinders...
Perfect reference for you is the Nissan Maxima vs Nissan X-Trail.
Maxima V6: 134kW @ 6000rpm - 228Nm @ 4400rpm
X-Trail Straight 4: 125kW @ 6000rpm - 226Nm @ 4400rpm
So, the answer to the question, using simple statistics. No there is no difference between comparable straight 4 and V6 engines.
Sizes of engines are not measured in cylinders, they're measured in litres and even then, this doesn't necessarily tell you the power figure.
You're saying torque is more important than kw for towing? You don't say? Seriously, this should be common knowledge. Why do you think diesels out perform petrols for towing. Honest to god, sometimes people make me want to rip out someones larynx! You're talking to someone who deals with towing all day every day. And once again, cylinders DO NOT equate to torque.
There is a saying amongst scientists, correlation doesn't equal causation.
That is, most V6 engines are larger than 4 cylinders. There is a correlation between cylinders and power, yes. But there is no causation, the cylinders haven't cause the power gain. The cylinders have allowed for better flow/timing and delivery of the power.
But seriously, should this thread be about teaching people how an internal combustion engine works considering the OP?
The OP asked if anyone had any experience towing up to the 2 ton limit of the X-trail. The answer is yes and it's fine.
--- Name: Kris ----- Member ID: X-2353
2011 T31 ST-L CVT 2.5 4WD
Ballarat, Victoria
|
16/Aug/2013, 4:09 pm
|
|
kgb007
X-TRAIL NEWBIE
Date Registered: 04-2012
TOTAL POSTS: 34
|
|
|
|
Re:
As a more relevant post, rather than getting into the whole, how engines work thing...
Greg, I've had no issues towing my caravan and I've had none of my customers have issues with their X-trails up to the 2 ton limit. I tow at the speed limit (including 110kmh), very stable depending on the van.
I haven't had any feed back on the need for a trans cooler, however that doesn't mean one isn't need or at the very least beneficial.
On the note of vans, it's very hard with the X-trail + shower van + quality van. Jurgens and Coromal are both fairly low quality vans to be honest, usually wouldn't accept one as a trade in unless we got it extremely cheap, and then we'd still be picky. But the weight issue is still there. You should be able to go close to 18 foot in a quality manufacturer. However, there is also budget to consider. Although until recently coromal were extremely expensive. If you're looking at coromal, may be easier to simply check out jayco/windsor to be honest. Bailey may be worth a look, but they're really not proven in Australia yet.
(coromal and windsor are both owned by fleetwood)
Very hard to say sorry. :P
--- Name: Kris ----- Member ID: X-2353
2011 T31 ST-L CVT 2.5 4WD
Ballarat, Victoria
|
16/Aug/2013, 4:19 pm
|
|
maxgmoore
X-TRAIL LEGEND
Date Registered: 11-2012
Location: Broome
TOTAL POSTS: 547
|
|
|
|
Re: 2003 Xtrail TI auto petrol towing ability
kris there is no need to get upset other people are aloud to contribute. no need to pull parts of your body out.
i just put forth a point of view that's what a forum is for. discussion so people can share ideas.
i'm sure there are many 4 cylinder engines that have torque that compare to v6 engines but you can't deny that there are many v6/v8 engines out there that have a higher torque than the exy and thus are better for towing larger loads.
as i said in my previous post i agree with you that the exy can tow a 2000kg caravan but it is at the limit of its towing capacity. if you're happy to do that its fine but i believe if you want to tow something that is at the upper limit of what it is designed to do your at risk of putting unnecessary wear and tear on the car. to this i said either get a lighter van or a car more suited for a heavy load. that is just my opinion.
--- Cheers
maxgmoore X-2776 (c)
My Ride
2003 Series 1 T30 Ti
|
16/Aug/2013, 4:36 pm
|
|
kgb007
X-TRAIL NEWBIE
Date Registered: 04-2012
TOTAL POSTS: 34
|
|
|
|
Re:
The reason I get upset is because I was never trying to explain that torque wasn't important. I was explaining that the amount of cylinders has 0% and I literally mean 0% of the difference to towing capability or capacity. It's just a correlation. 4 cylinders tend to stop at about 2.5ish these days. But as I clearly showed a 2.5ltr v6 has almost identical stats.
The problem with forums, and it's something that I have to admit, does bother me. Is that people put out opinion as fact. Which it's not, and, it's not that hard to become better educated on a topic. But miss-information isn't helpful to anyone. (IE, by saying V6 is better than 4 Cyl, automatically a V6 petrol is superior to a 4 Cyl TDI, which is totally incorrect) If you get what I'm saying. People actually act on advice they find on forums. (it can still effect peoples real lives, this is also why I have an issue some of the poor safety advice I've seen here, relating to towing.)
Last edited by kgb007, 16/Aug/2013, 4:51 pm
--- Name: Kris ----- Member ID: X-2353
2011 T31 ST-L CVT 2.5 4WD
Ballarat, Victoria
|
16/Aug/2013, 4:46 pm
|
|
maxgmoore
X-TRAIL LEGEND
Date Registered: 11-2012
Location: Broome
TOTAL POSTS: 547
|
|
|
|
Re: 2003 Xtrail TI auto petrol towing ability
you gave one example at which it was the same.
i acknowledged it.
i noted that there are 4 cylinder engines out there that do in fact have higher torque than some v6 engines. i agree with you there. i have said it in each post.
im not going to list all the possible variations in cases where a higher cylinder engine has more torque! AND im not stating that just because a car has more cylinders it has more torque! I just said there were some out there that do and therefore would be suited to towing heavier loads!
do you want to start talking about bore and stroke as well? there are many variables that affect how an engine works and how much power/torque it puts out.
i have always agreed with points you have stated and then have gave an opinion based on facts. all related to the initial question asked which was about an exy towing 2000kgs. i agreed it could be done. i just said it was at the upper limit of its capability. you can no deny that it isn't.
to this i said its up to the owner if they wish to do this if they aren't worried about increased wear and tare.
if people exchanging ideas and opinions on forums bothers you so much its a lot of unnecessary stress. this is what forums are for. if friendly discussion on an open topic bothers you then maybe a forum environment isn't suited to you.
--- Cheers
maxgmoore X-2776 (c)
My Ride
2003 Series 1 T30 Ti
|
16/Aug/2013, 5:07 pm
|
|
jalalski
Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
|
|
|
|
Re:
Kris,
To put it simply to you without proving any facts regarding torque vs power and the number of cylinders, I will say....
If your beloved T31 X-Trail came in the market and I knew or you told me that you towed with it a 2000KG caravan a number of times, I would look for an x-trail that hasn't been through such "load" on the transmission and the engine. That's my answer in regards to the towing limit of the xtrail and I again would NOT recommend using the xtrail for such purpose.
Last edited by jalalski, 16/Aug/2013, 5:40 pm
|
16/Aug/2013, 5:28 pm
|
|
jalalski
Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
|
|
|
|
Re:
Your information about diesels is irrelevant in this case, as the question and the subject of this thread specifically asked about the T30 2.5LT petrol powered x-trail and the answers provided had that in mind.
As to converting petrol xtrail to LPG, yes it is cheaper to run but will ruin the hell out of your engine in the long run and we have real-life experiences from existing LPG users to prove it (site search will reveal it for you).
P.S. Am not sure why you picked a V6 Maxima Sedan as your comparison example to the xtrail SUV for towing a caravan??
|
16/Aug/2013, 5:51 pm
|
|
Page: 1 2 3
|