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MosaicT30 Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 29
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Intercooling with water vapour


Just about to start a project so I thought i'd get a thread going and get some suggestions.

The Problem
My GT already has an intercooler, placed over the head by Nissan. The genius who did that must think traffic does not exist. That intercooler HEATS the air when not in boost in traffic.
Also the hot air screws over your acceleration from a stop light.
Which means poor power for 60% of my drive as I live in an island with few freeways and I have bumper to bumper for an hour each morning.

The Proposed Solution

Let the engine aspirate super humid air > 100% humidity. Basically feed the motor a cloud. based on fuel consumption, a maximum of [sign in to see URL] vapour should do at 10% water/fuel ratio.

I picked up an ultrasonic fogger:

Item: MCL05; Input: 120V/36V AC
Disk size: 20mm diameter
Generate mist: 1500 ml/hour

from

[sign in to see URL]

Will run it from a standard 500VA APC BackUps which is fed from the vehicle battery.
 Testing shows that the fogger pulls 133 W. I use a Killawatt to check:

[sign in to see URL]

Well cater for 150W/ 12A from the 13V+ auto power system, which is fine as the system is designed for a few more amps.

How to feed the fog.
The fogger produces droplets 5 to 15 microns. If u breathe it u feel a little cooling but its like air.
I propose to take a line from b4 the intercooler (after the MAf), connect to the fog producing container and then take an output from the container top back to just AFTER the intercooler.

I think it would work as follows:
Under [sign in to see URL] higher preintercooler pressure will give the fog canister a +ve pressure to feed into the intake post intercooler.
Under vacuum the canister should see a small vacuum at its outlet compared to its inlet and still feed.


How to manage amt of fog.
I propose to use a photocell/led fog density sensor driving the fogger power to determine fog levels. By calibrating the trigger point of the photocell I can control the amount of fog produced based on a pulsed duty cycle. Or use an AC dimmer to dynamically adjust the voltage to the fogger.

An auto controller should also use the intake air temp to determine amount of fog.

Fog should not be introduced until the engine is hot, to prevent condensation in the intake plenum. Motor to be run fogless for a few seconds b4 shutdown to remove any water vapour in the system. A valve on the outlet tubing is necessary to force a guaranteed fog shutoff in case of system air leaks.

It appears a lot cheaper than a high pressure water injection staged system. With an NA car its even easier.

Suggestions anyone?
7/Dec/2009, 2:13 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
cooch t31 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2008
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 5966
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


There are are lot of variables that can go wrong with this, especially with controlling the amount of fog at different speeds. It will need more fog as the rpms increase. All I can picture is you dialing it in manually inside the cab.

See that your only fogging the inlet before the MAF, would it be a better idea to relocate the intercooler to the front of the Xy's grill. That way your getting colder air.

If you get it working, it probably be more efficient than a water injenction system.
Either that or you just fill the intercooler with dry ice all the time. emoticon

---
Tony X-891c

HERE is my D22 Navara
HERE is my old 2008 T31, ST Series1

7/Dec/2009, 5:41 am Link to this post Send Private Message
 
MosaicT30 Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 29
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


Well the point is intake air [sign in to see URL] the temp control i mentioned will govern fog amounts. Fogging is AFTER the MAF, using air already measured by the mAF.
7/Dec/2009, 8:35 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5250
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


So if the MAF is before the intercooler, how does the ECU get the correct air flow mass and temp data for injection and timing to give correct combustion ?

---
Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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7/Dec/2009, 12:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
MosaicT30 Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 29
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


The MAF on my GT is located before the turbo after the intake filter box. I am not adding air. Only water vapour. I am pulling already measured air from the regular intake post the turbo so their is no maf correction required. I am reinserting this air post the intercooler with the added water vapour.

7/Dec/2009, 4:06 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
gu4500 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2009
Location: NW Taswegia
TOTAL POSTS: 129
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


I have seen people play around with electric fans under the I/C on Patrols to counteract heat soak when going slow in low range offroad.....

Seemed to have some benefits......

---
Ian X-1289(c)
2009 Platinum TL Xtrail - Scanguage2, Mio Moov360 GPS, Fridge, 100AH AGM 2nd battery, cargo barrier.
1998 GU Patrol 4.5 Petrol, lifted locked, barred...... so much there.
9/Dec/2009, 12:29 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


I suppose you've already thought of water-spray onto the i/c. My brother set one up on his WRX about a decade ago, running from the windscreen-washer bottle (or a secondary one). If heat-soak of the i/c is your main concern, this may be a simple solution. Only for an hour's worth of stop-start driving, you might need a big jerry-can instead of a washer-bottle emoticon

I used an even simpler method on my N/A Pulsar, which has already been mentioned - ran a new intake ducted from the fog-light hole in the lower bumper, with a 120mm 12v PC cooling fan sitting at the air filter end of the ducting, so when I sat at lights, it was sucking in cold (outside) air (and creating positive pressure in the custom heat-shield/filter-box), so I didn't have the terrible heat-soak acceleration lag...

[sign in to see URL]

[sign in to see URL]

I've done a similar thing with the X-Trail, minus the 12v fan, and retained the factory filter-box (still covered in the same heat-reflective foam). I still get heat-soak (displayed in cabin using 3x in/out temp-gauges) but probably nowhere near as bad as retaining the factory intake position behind the grille.


---
Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
Click here to see >300MB of photos and videos All For His Glory.
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MosaicT30 Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2009
TOTAL POSTS: 29
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


Gosh, I feel discouraged.
10/Dec/2009, 7:40 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


quote:

MosaicT30 wrote:

Gosh, I feel discouraged.



Why's that? I was merely making some suggestions. And my workmanship isn't all that good, either emoticon


---
Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
Click here to see >300MB of photos and videos All For His Glory.
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hiimkam Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2008
Location: Perth
TOTAL POSTS: 414
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Re: Intercooling with water vapour


Hey dude, good to see another X-trail with forced induction goodness emoticon

RE water injection: Its seriously the sh!t. Really good way to DRASTICALLY drop intake temps.
I think a few people are getting confused with water sprays on the intercooler as opposed to water injection. Ive considered it too, still am in fact!

But if i was you, id just go for a FMIC instead.
They are a thousand times better that top mounts...
the ONLY downside, is slightly longer intake piping.
Mine works perfect where it is. Under normal warm engine, sitting in traffic even, the intercooler stays COLD... only starts to warm up AFTER the engine is off (heat radiation).

have a look in my build thread, page , for where my intercooler is.
[sign in to see URL]

Why not have a look into alcohol or methanol injection too?
they all work under the same principle, and all have different pros and cons.

But if i was you, pick up a cheap cooler off ebay (you can pay 600+ for one, but ther all the same...) andmeasure up some ally piping... bobs your uncle!

---
GT2860rs, Ems stinger, tial external gate, 3" exhaust, 10psi and ~200kw @ all fours. Koya drifteks w/245/50 rubber, 70mm lowered springs, slotted rotors and painted calipers :)
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