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Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5285
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Re: Timing Chain service/Replacement.


quote:

BlackThunda wrote:
Hey Kev, does it sound like you're driving an old deisel or the tappets are out but not a pinging sound you get when using a lower grade fuel?



No Jamie, but I have that too.
The sound you are referring to is from the valve lifters. They are like little "hats" which sit over the valve stems between the stem and the camshaft and are used as shims to adjust the gap. These lifters wear and create larger gaps that make the valve stems "tap" on the lifter as the cam rotates to push the valve down. The only adjustment is to remove the camshafts and replace the lifters with new ones which are thicker. Following is the extract from the service manual.
]--Log in or sign up to see linked image content--

The sound I am referring to is like something is loose inside the engine bay such as the rattle you would get when a bolt is loose and the part vibrates with the engine vibrations, changing as the revs change. It does not do it when idling or coasting or once the revs get above 3000rpm. I do get it also for a few seconds when the engine is started, but not every time.

The tensioner for the belt which drives the alternator, water pump, aircon compressor and power steering usually squeals as a sign that it needs replacing.

The Xtrail is going in for its 120K service where adjustment of the valve clearances is done. The service manager has said they will check the noise after the service to determine if it is still there and what it might be.

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5285
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Timing Chain service/Replacement.


quote:

Revhead Kev wrote:
The sound I am referring to is like something is loose inside the engine bay such as the rattle you would get when a bolt is loose and the part vibrates with the engine vibrations, changing as the revs change.



Yep, it was.
The way I had my UHF antenna base screwed inside the engine bay when not in use allowed the Z-bracket to vibrate on where it was screwed to. Found this by "flicking" it in all directions to find if it vibrated. It did so I remounted it onto the fender and noise has gone.
Now I just have to get a bigger screw or bolt to fix it properly. emoticon

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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
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Kev,

Have you had your exy serviced for the 120K service yet and did Nissan identify the noise at all?

Mate, now that am reading the noise you're describing, that ticking noise (or what sounds like a loose screw jumping around in the engine bay) is exactly the noise I have, but in my case I suspect the timing chain to have been damaged and is getting jammed which could explain the griding noise I was getting above 100kms/hour.

I am taking my exy to Nissan next week to trouble-shoot and they want me to take a mechanic with me for a drive to try and replicate this griding noise above 100K/hour.

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4/Mar/2011, 10:05 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5285
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Re: Timing Chain service/Replacement.


Recent investigations have found it might be something to do with the timing chain.
When my "rattle" came back this time, it started happening on uphill sections and then gradually got to the point of doing it when accelerating along slight uphills. Level sections or downhills did not make the noise.

I checked the oil level and it was at the bottom of the stick. Topped up the oil and the next day the noise disappeared so it seems when the Xtrail runs low on oil there is a point where the timing chain does not get enough lubrication on uphill sections but the level or pressure is not low enough to trigger the low oil warning light.

Had a similar problem on my old 1980 Sigma where the distributor shaft vibrated if the oil was low and the engine revs dropped suddenly as the clutch was disengaged.

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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Date Registered: 02-2004
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To be honest with you Kev, Spiro spent quite a lengthy time under my exy trying to pin-point the source of the rattle I was having when I took my exy to him to trouble-shoot and have it re-tuned. His diagnosis where that the source of the rattle was coming from the timing chain housing, but I didn't believe it was true.

Now that you're talking about a similar noise (only in my case it must have got worse) and about the timing chain not getting enough lubrication on uphill sections, I reckon that is exactly the issue am having and it is very logical if you link this to the recent fuel consumption problems I was having where the timing is being thrown-out and forcing the ECU to compensate somehow.

I don't believe the issue am having has anything to do with the transmission and/or the prop shaft.

I have come across 3 cases so far where T30 owners (in Australia) had to replace the timing chain around the 150,000kms mark due to excessive damage caused by the tensioner.

I reckon trouble-shooting the timing chain the first thing am gonna do. I will check the oil level today.

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Robbo0001 Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
TOTAL POSTS: 1063
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Re: Timing Chain service/Replacement.


The chain itself should be [sign in to see URL] either there or not (unlike a belt that can stretch) I dont believe a worn chain can wear to the point of affecting timing so drastically, but am happy to be proved wrong (like to earn emoticon )

The tensioner is another story, and relies on rubber bush strength to keep the chain tight.
The excessive fuel consumption is a weird symptom, but a new tensioner and chain cant hurt, now you have described the noise.

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Dave
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cooch t31 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2008
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 5966
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Re:


Even with a low level of oil, the timing chain will still get lubricated. It is designed that only minimul oil can keep the chain lubed. Going up or down hills shouldn't really affect it cause its an east west engine. The tensioner could be worn but the only way the timing chain can influence fuel consumption, is being one gear tooth out.

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HERE is my D22 Navara
HERE is my old 2008 T31, ST Series1

5/Mar/2011, 6:53 am Link to this post Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28983
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Re:


Guys,

I'll find out next week when I take my car to Nissan and have them check the timing chain and tensioner. The tensioner service/maintenance should have been done at the 100K service, so am gonna mention that to them as well.

By the way, there was an official recall for the timing chain tensioner on the T30 in the UK.

The details of this recall is this:


Exact Model: X-Trail
Description: Possibility that the sprocket bolt at the rear side of the camshaft could break
VIN: JN1TENT20U0000007 to JN1TENT30U0035143
Build Date:
Numbers: 3001
Defect: The timing chain tensioner may become defective, which can result in the timing chain jamming. Should this occur, the engine may stall or fail to start. The condition may also result in the camshaft turning in a non-uniform fashion, which could lead to the failure of the vacuum pump drive, and a reduction in braking assistance.
Action: Recalled vehicles will have the camshaft chain guide and tensioner replaced.
Launch Date: 23 June 2004


P.S. I have also experienced the fail to start condition, but not as often and thought it was a weak battery as the xtrail wasn't being driven much.

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Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5285
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Re: Re:


quote:

cooch t31 wrote:
Even with a low level of oil, the timing chain will still get lubricated. It is designed that only minimul oil can keep the chain lubed. Going up or down hills shouldn't really affect it cause its an east west engine.



OK then Tony, is there an explaination for my noise ? Why did it go away when I topped up the oil ? This has happened twice now at a time just before the service was due.

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28983
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Timing Chain service/Replacement.


quote:

Robbo0001 wrote:

The chain itself should be [sign in to see URL] either there or not (unlike a belt that can stretch) I dont believe a worn chain can wear to the point of affecting timing so drastically, but am happy to be proved wrong



Dave,

The timing chain can stretch just like the timing belt and the impact of a stretched timing chain will have a direct impact on timing being retarded.

See [url=[sign in to see URL] video showing a the amount of stretch that can happen to a timing chain compared to a new one.

Based on what I have read so far about damaged timing chains, the reviews confirm that the car power and acceleration will be most impacted on uphill sections and the fuel economy will drastically suffer as a result. These are the first 2 crucial signs of a stretched and/or damaged timing chain.

By the way guys, the QR engine has TWO timing chains, the second timing chain is moving the engine balancers located in the oil pan.

EDIT: I was just telling my wife that am gonna take the car to have the timing chain checked-out and she goes to me:

"Oh, I forgot to tell you yesterday, I had some orange light in the dash in the shape of the water tap come-on and stay on while I was [sign in to see URL] meant to tell you about it but I forgot" LOL emoticon

The water tap she's referring to is the check engine light of course and it is no longer there today, I can only assume the Cam sensor has given up as well.

Last edited by jalalski, 5/Mar/2011, 11:34 pm


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