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wallsy Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Very Rough Idling


Hi,

2002 ST x-trail. (mechanical knowledge is limited)

History: A short while ago the head gasket on my x-trail went (first day of honeymoon actually!)... it wasn't a big, steam going everywhere, pull over the side of the road sort of event.. but rather something that happened over a while and it ended up being some sort of crack in the head. Anyway I had it fixed for $2300. I only mention this incident in case it has bearing on the problem. The problem has been happening before and after this event.

The problem is - when I sit in idle at the traffic lights the whole car will shudder back and forth. It's as if the fuel is not being input evenly. When the engine is cold in the morning it seeems to idle fine though.

My mechanic couldn't fix it and he took it in to a nissan dealership where they hooked up the computer to some sort of device that controlled the tuning. The guy there could get it to run sweetly by adjusting the fuel input with the device - but he couldn't make it stay at that particular setting. They recommended to have a shot at driving it for a while and seeing if the computer would 'learn' idle.

It hasn't learnt anything yet and its been a while.

My mechanic thought it may be a "air mass meter" or "air volume meter" OR the computer might be gone.

My question is: Is this a common problem with the x-trails? Has anyone else had a similar experience?


Many thanks for your advice and/or help.

cheers,
dan.
5/Aug/2008, 9:10 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 6355
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi Dan,

First couple of questions which come to mind are...
1. Does the Xtrail drive fine at normal speeds and does it seem to have normal power and acceleration ?
2. What rpm does the tacho sit on when trying to idel ?

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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5/Aug/2008, 9:17 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29100
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi Dan,

If the dealer adjusted the idle and performed the idle re-learn and it didn't stay the same, then is could possibly be a faulty MAF (air flow) sensor which is sending an incorrect reading to the ECU and confusing the idle.

Have you checked the condition of your air filter?

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5/Aug/2008, 9:37 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Eggins Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2004
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 184
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Re: Very Rough Idling


I'd definitely try the Idle Air Relearn myself, and do the pedal position things beforehand - the whole procedure! It takes a few attempts to get this right.

Print out the whole procedure, do the first couple of steps to get pedal position and throttle closed positions right, then go for a drive and warm everything up. Pull over somewhere and do the Idle Air Relearn, then drive around again for a while. Try highway and backstreet use.

DIY Idle Air Relearn

Idle should end up being about 900rpm, and you'll know if it all worked OK.



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Shawn and Belinda Eggins
2003 STR, K&N, Strut brace, Ground wires, Dunlop LM702's, Tint, Mud flaps, Tow, Nudge, Spots, Mats, Rear scuff plate
http://eggins.synthasite.com/
7/Aug/2008, 5:14 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
wallsy Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi,

To answer your questions:

1. The x-trail drives fine at normal speeds, and accelerates fine as well.
2. The tacho is sitting on about 800rpm when trying to idle. Its jumping around between 800-900 as it tries to keep a steady idle.
3. the air filter has recently been serviced - so it should be fine.

Thanks everyone else for your time and ideas. I'll try the Idle air relearn and let you know how it goes. The faulty air flow sensor seems like a good bet.

If the air flow sensor (MAF) is gone then I'm assuming the Idle Air Relearn won't do much. But its worth a try.

Thanks,
Dan.
11/Aug/2008, 9:32 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
wallsy Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi,

It's taken me a while but I've finally got around to trying some of the recommendations with the following results:

1. I did the "Idle Air Relearn" procedure and I could tell that it was trying to reset the idle but after a while it just came back to jumping around in the 800-900 range.

2. I tried the ECM diagnostics procedure detailed here:

    http://www.australianxtrail.com.au/files/ECMDiagnostics_ECMResetProcedure.pdf

and it showed me a code of 0000 (which I believe is no detected problems). I thought this may have detected any problems with the MAF air flow sensor?

I was wondering whether its worth trying an ECU reset as well?

Otherwise I will take it to a dealer and ask them to check the air flow sensor. What should I expect this to cost? Could this be a relatively easy DIY job if I could source the part?

Kind regards,
Dan.



7/Nov/2008, 6:52 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 6355
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi Dan,

An ECU reset would not hurt so you may as well try it.

Replacing the MAF is a very easy job.
All you need to do is disconnect an electrical connector, undo a hose clamp, undo 4 bolts holding the MAF housing to the top of the filter box and the MAF is free.
Reverse the steps to put the new one on.

Cost ?
Probably pick one up cheaper from a wreckers rather than a new one from a dealer.

---
Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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7/Nov/2008, 9:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Robbo0001 Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2008
Location: Brisvegas, Australia
TOTAL POSTS: 1063
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Re: Very Rough Idling


The easiest, and possibly cheapest thing to do, is change the spark plugs.(if your mechanic hasnt done it)
It is impossible to bench test a spark plug that has a heat problem.
 I have discovered that the Consult will test down to "coil pack" level....but an intermittent or "misfiring" sparkplug is bloody hard to find ..If the fault is caused by temp or circumstance, a cheap set of new NGK plugs put in and a drive,will let you know if a plug has failed
If all the electronic resets fail, and no fault code comes up....go the plugs. emoticon
At speed you wont notice it...at idle and with load (aircon, radio etc) it will be...
hope this is of help.

Edit...I hope they didnt put your "cooked" spark plugs back in after your head went
 

Last edited by Robbo0001, 7/Nov/2008, 11:17 pm


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Dave
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7/Nov/2008, 11:01 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
wallsy Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2008
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Well - I bought a can of MAF sensor cleaner (CRC product) - which didn't work but it was worth a try.

I had run out of options so I put it into Nissan at Indooroopilly. They found that the problem was "Exhaust Cam out by one tooth". Not sure what that means. They are charging $1100 to fix it.

In addition they found:

Front brake pads down to 4mm plus something wrong with rotor: $548
CV boot split (left hand front): $284
Engine mount bracket cracked: $180
Rear brake pads down to 1mm: $398

emoticon

I'm just getting them to fix the engine mount and the original timing issue for now.
14/Jan/2009, 1:10 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Dadd Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2008
Location: New South Wales
TOTAL POSTS: 182
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Re: Very Rough Idling


Hi Dan

The sprocket that is attached to the exhaust camshaft ( and driven by the timing chain ) is out of position by one tooth meaning your valve timing is out on the exhaust valves.

There are only two ways this can happen and that is either the camshaft / timing chain was not reassembled correctly when the head was refitted or it has jumped a tooth whilst in service.
I believe it has been known for the latter to happen but my money would be on incorrect reassembly. You may have recourse to compensation from the mechanic who did the head gasket.

However the strange thing is that you had the problem prior to the head gasket being replaced although the fact the head gasket was gone probably contributed to bad idling at that time and it is a coincidence that the repair job left you with this problem which is also giving you bad idling.

Since it is an expensive repair I think you need to look at the liability of the mechanic who replaced the head gasket.

Good luck with it.

Last edited by Dadd, 14/Jan/2009, 3:20 pm


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Glenn X-889
2008 ST Manual
14/Jan/2009, 3:17 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message ICQ AIM
 


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