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Dave75 Profile
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X-TRAIL NEWBIE
 


Date Registered: 09-2007
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 10
Reply | QUOTE
No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


Hey guys and gals;

Sorry about starting a new thread for this, but I'm shocked and disappointed at what happened today and am eager for your feedback.

Shopped around for tyres this week and settled on the D694 215/75/15. Even had to go down a notch from what I wanted as the sales person explained that there are size upgrade limitations in QLD (I'm from Canada...)

Anyhow, the missus rings up today to set up an appointment and we're told that these tyres are illegal on X-Trails. We phoned 5 other places (1 of which I spoken to during my shopping around) and all said the same thing. There are no AT tyres on the market to fit an X-Trail.

How can this be? The X-Trail is sold as a 4x4 (albeit a small one... but 4x4 none the less). My original tyres are 215\70\15.... how can a 5% in crease in aspect ratio be above the legal limit? Is everyone out there who owns an X-Trail fitted with AT tyres voiding their insurance policy, warranty, and actually driving with an illegal set-up?

Thanks for any feedback… I’m really bummed about this one….

BTW - When I was shopping around I didn't tell any of the salespeople I had an X-Trail, I only told them my original wheel size. Didn't think vehivle type made a difference, only original tyre dimensions....

Cheers,
Dave


Last edited by Dave75, 26/Sep/2007, 5:09 pm
26/Sep/2007, 5:05 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Y WAIT Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2005
Location: central coast nsw
TOTAL POSTS: 1123
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


Not sure on the qld rules, but in nsw we can go as high as we want as long as the rolling diameter is no larger than 15% of the original.

Id be giving RACQ a call

---
CHECK OUT MY BT TOURER






26/Sep/2007, 5:53 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
bluexy Profile
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Date Registered: 05-2007
TOTAL POSTS: 125
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


im in nsw and ive got 215/75 r15 tyres coopers all terrain.go and try at arb or a 4wd place.they would know abit or ring up your insurance company.
26/Sep/2007, 6:36 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


While there is already heaps of info on suitable tyre size replacements on this forum, I'm not going to force you to read pages and pages of messages to find out what has already been said above (which is a very short summary of the other threads anyway). QLD rules might be different to NSW, but I reckon the reason you've been told by many tyre retailers that there are no A/T tyres suitable is because they've never fitted any, and they're going off exactly what is listed in their tyre manufacturer's "exact replacement" guides. Of course there is very few (if any at all) that make the exact tyre size for the X-Trail, even in H/T pattern.

I'd be ignoring the tyre shop's recommendation and go with what's been tried and tested by many other forum members - more info can be found in detail on this forum - you can use the search feature to narrow down your searching time rather than reading every thread in this section...



Last edited by basshead, 26/Sep/2007, 7:12 pm


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'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
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26/Sep/2007, 6:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
BRETT72 Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Orange. NSW.
TOTAL POSTS: 1999
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


Dave,

 You have been given a massive 'bum steer' with this one. If you walk into any auto shop, half of the products are illegal, including bulbs, tint patterns, turbo timers, blow-off valves.

 As for the tyre choice, yeah they may not be approved, but as for being illegal, I would get some better advise.

 If they are going to be picky, take your tyres of the exy and put them in the back of a mate ute. Take them to the tyre shop and this way, they have an out. Just dont tell them what vehicle they are off.

 I have the BFG 225/70r16 BFG all terrains and have seen heaps of exys with these tyres fitted.

 Just make sure you insurance company is happy with the tyre size.

 Good luck with it.
 

 

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BRETT72 - X235

26/Sep/2007, 7:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
dazmit Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2007
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 38
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


Dave

It would be interesting to ask why they are illegal ?
Although it could be due to the speed and load ratings which in QLD ,the replacements have to be at least what the manufacturer states. A lot of AT tyres have a lower speed rating to highway terrains.
You might find there is a larger choice in 16" rims and there are probably some 2nd hand 16" rims around from the TI X-Trails.

Cheers

Darryl

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2007 ST Auto with ST-S alloys, tint, roof racks, cargo barrier, tinted bonnet protector.
28/Sep/2007, 2:20 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29089
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


That is correct Darryl, there is much more options in the 16" tyre range and that was one of the reasons I initially upgraded from 15" to 16" as the choice was VERY limited.

I remember at the first motor show (after the xtrail came-out) myself and Richi were asking about the 15" A/T tyres from a Goodyear dealer (I think) and he said the same thing, that in 15" they had nothing to match the factory size.

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28/Sep/2007, 2:35 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
johnsey Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2007
Location: Melbourne, Wantirna
TOTAL POSTS: 435
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


Best advice for this topic

: Obtain guidelines for wheel and tyre sizes in relavent state.

:Calculate largest legal tyre diameter.

:Check exact tyre manufactures specs (not just by sizing eg 215/75R15). Have found OD vary a bit between tyre companies.

:Pick the most suited tread pattern for vehicle use. Tyre replacement thread covers most options.

 emoticon

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1/Oct/2007, 9:52 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
RonV Profile
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X-TRAIL FANATIC
 


Date Registered: 02-2007
Location: North Shore, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 302
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


quote:

Not sure on the qld rules, but in nsw we can go as high as we want as long as the rolling diameter is no larger than 15% of the original.



The RTA (NSW) documentation only refers to 15mm, not 15%:

quote:

Minor changes to wheels
Wheels up to 26mm wider than the largest optional wheel recommended by the vehicle manufacturer for the
vehicle can be fitted without the need to notify the RTA.
The outside diameter of the wheel and tyre combination must be no more than 15mm over the largest diameter
wheel and tyre combination specified for the vehicle and not more than 15mm below the smallest diameter wheel
and tyre combination specified for the vehicle.



If the rolling diameter is referred to as the 'OD' in the tyre charts, on a 16inch rim you can go up to an OD of 701mm (the Bridgestones being 686mm).

If the diameter went up on this tyre by just 15mm then the distance travelled per wheel turn is only just over 2% different so your speedo should not be affected as this is within the tolerance of the speedo. 15% however would take it outside the speedo tolerance and I guess it would require adjusting.

It is not necessarily illegal to fit larger wheel/tyre combinations but you would require an engineers certificate.

Queensland rules are the same for an increase in size, different for decrease in size:

quote:

The rim diameter may be varied from the standard size
but the overall diameter of the tyre must not vary by
more than +15mm or -26mm.
These limits have been set for a number of reasons.
Varying the overall diameter of tyres affects ground
clearance, centre of gravity, brake effectiveness, steering
geometry, performance and speedometer accuracy



That implies that BFG 215/70R16 and 225/70R16 are perfectly road legal tyres for the X-Trail.

I can't find OD figures for the 15inch Toyos, if anyone has these we can work out some suggestions on those rims whilst staying within the law.

Last edited by RonV, 6/Oct/2007, 1:03 pm


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Ron X563

2011-current X-Nissan owner
2008-2011 X-X-Trail owner
2005-2008 X-Trail Ti-L

Turramurra, NSW
6/Oct/2007, 8:20 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
RonV Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2007
Location: North Shore, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 302
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Re: No Such Thing as A\T Tyres for X-Trails


I found this on the tyre size subject, copied from the a quote on the Overlander forum so I do not know the source. The interesting bit is the variation possible in tyre size, and if in doubt take your calculation to the RTA then get agreement first before fitting.

quote:

The information presented below may not be acceptable to all state regulators. If you are unsure of how your state regulator may interpret their rules, contact them and obtain a response in writing. Keep it handy in case it is required by your insurer. 



The information below assumes you will retain 16" rims, although this is not necessarily required by regulation. 

We don't know all state regulations yet (pitch in if you can help with facts). However, NSW, QLD, VIC and SA all have a basic limitation on the overall diameter and width for replacement tyres. 



Paraphrased, and discarding the reference to reducing sizes, the regulations go like this: 

"The maximum increase in overall diameter (OD) that may be fitted is 15 mm greater than the largest wheel & tyre combination provided by the vehicle manufacturer as indicated on the tyre placard affixed to the vehicle. 


The maximum increase in overall width that may be fitted is 26 mm greater than the largest wheel & tyre combination provided by the vehicle manufacturer as indicated on the tyre placard affixed to the vehicle." 


The the standard (and only) wheel/tyre combo offered on the Aussie Pathy (to date) is indicated on the placard as a 245/70/16 (on 7jj rims). To covert any such tyre code into an OD in millimetres simply substitute the respective values into the following equation: 

(Width mm x profile % x 2) + rim mm = OD 
(245 x 0.70 x 2) + 406.4 = OD 
343 + 406.4 = 749.4 mm OD 

This equation provides what I refer to as the "nominal" OD of a tyre. 


Therefore, the nominal OD of a 245/70/16 tyre is 749.4 mm. Add to this the allowed increase of 15 mm and the nominal maximum allowable OD is 764.4 mm. So what? What sized tyre can I fit? 

Using these nominal sizes and converting back to a code, you may fit a 245/70/16 or a 255/70/16 or a 265/65/16. That's it. 



However, ... 

the regulations do not refer to "nominal sizes, nor to the European code width/profile/rim (245/70/16). The regulations do, however, refer to "Overall Diameter", which can only be stated in millimetres or inches, and a specific size increase of +/- 15 mm.

I have presented the argument to NSW RTA that the ambiguous nature of the regs leaves only one approach - to use actual diameters measured in millimetres - and this was accepted by them. 



So, now we can ignore nominal sizes and codes and look to actual OD data. This means you can fit any wheel/tyre combo, regardless of coding as long as the actual OD in millimetres/inches, as stated by the manufacturer, is within the allowable maximum OD.

OK, great. So how do we work that out now? 

Simple: add 15 mm to the largest 245/70/16 tyre available. I found one that was stated as being 755 mm so the new maximum allowable OD is 770 mm. But it gets better. Because we are now using actual sizes, not nominal, you will be able to find a 245/75/16 that is less than 770 mm (remember though, you can't have it both ways - you cannot fit any 245/75/16 - it must be less than 770 mm OD). So, now you can fit a 245/70/16, a 255/70/16, a 265/65/16 and some 245/75/16 tyres. 


This is where the story definitely stops for SA, and perhaps also for VIC and QLD (although we have not tested the next part of the story in those two states). 



For NSW, the story continues, and gets better again emoticon : 

I had my heart set on a set of Cooper ST 245/75/16 LT tyres. These measure-in at 775 mm and I wasn't going to take "no" for an answer. Following a lot more research, I discovered that manufactures have an allowable manufacturing variance in the product dimensions of +/- 3.0%. This variance forms part of the tyre manufacturers' specification guidelines and is also part of the Australia Standards Association guidelines.
It also explains the large variance in actual OD of tyres sharing the same code. For example, a 245/70/16 tyre can actually measure between 739.1 mm and 759.7 mm OD. 

I took this information to the RTA, and claimed that if a manufacture can make a 245/70/16 tyre that is 759.7 mm in OD, that is the number referred to in the regulations as "the largest" and I should be able to add 15 mm to it to get a maximum allowable OD of 774.7 mm (which I rounded to 775 mm, of course ).

I received written (email) confirmation that I could apply this argument, and the associated maths, and I promptly purchased and fitted my Cooper STs. emoticon : 

So, according to the above experience, in NSW you may fit a 245/70/16, 255/70/16, 265/70/16 and any 245/75/16 tyre to your Pathy, as long as the stated OD does not exceed 775 mm. 


Phew, I said I'd keep it brief. 



Oh, and remember to ensure both load rating and speed rating regulations are adhered to also and note these differ between states.



In short, if in doubt present your calculation to the relevant authorities and ask, then go for it!

---
Ron X563

2011-current X-Nissan owner
2008-2011 X-X-Trail owner
2005-2008 X-Trail Ti-L

Turramurra, NSW
12/Feb/2008, 3:38 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 


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