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Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5790
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Re: Power Window Relay


Guys,

I tried to remove the power window relay to check the coil resistance so I could test the delay circuit but damned if I could figure out how ?
Just pulling it out seems too hard.
Is there a locking tab somewhere ?

(Edit) Don't worry I FOUND IT !
Crisis over.

Last edited by Revhead Kev, 16/Nov/2006, 5:47 pm


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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Power Window Relay


I'm thinking of putting an interposing relay in the circuit Kev.. just a little power relay from DSE... does away with cutting one of the wires and allows me to test it a bit easier. Also, it's a known coil resistance. But out of curiousity .. what did you come up with?

I've mostly done the circuit. But the DSE down here ran out of the 2N2222 transistors.
I should be able to get 2 minutes out of 2 x 2200uF caps and a 20k resistance.

---

My Triton GLX-R

16/Nov/2006, 6:02 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5790
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Re: Power Window Relay


Hey Naff,

The power window relay coil was measured at 117 Ohms.
So at 13.8V this gives about 118mA.

The 2N2222 is the better transistor since it handles a higher power, has a higher gain, is in a smaller casing and at a lower cost than the 2N3053.

Looking at your values...
3*R*C will give 3*4400uF*20k=264secs=4.4mins
But I(base)=(13.8-1.4)/20k=0.5mA
With h(FE) for the 2N2222 of min 100 then i(relay) could be as low as 50mA or only half what is needed for the power window relay. Your DSE relay may be OK with this.
If you use a 10k resistor then you should get 2mins and 1mA i(base) for a better relay current.

What are your thoughts on this ?

And BTW ...
You should not have to cut any wires !
The power window relay has spade lugs for the terminals (small 4.8mm for the coil and large 6.4mm for the contacts) so I was going to have flying leads with spade lugs from the circuit board to connect into the relay socket and then flying leads with spade sockets to connect to the relay again.
This allows you to connect or disconnect the circuit anytime you wish without wiring mods.

Last edited by Revhead Kev, 17/Nov/2006, 11:28 am


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Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Power Window Relay


Sounds about right Kev.. the DSE relay has a coil resistance of 225 Ohms. So at 13.8V there'd be about 61mA. Since it is just an interposing relay it is just going to activate the coil of the power window relay.

Thanks for the tip about the spade lugs... that will make things a lot easier.

What do you do Kev? You know your electronics stuff!

---

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17/Nov/2006, 1:35 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5790
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Re: Power Window Relay


Hi Naff,

Education is a Balchelor Degree in Electrical Engineering.
Majored in power controls but by association with school mates and an interest in electronics during high school, I like to fiddle around occasionally.

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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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17/Nov/2006, 1:45 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Power Window Relay


Snap!

I did the EE degree too... but didn't major in anything. Originally got interested through electronics in high school.

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17/Nov/2006, 2:45 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5790
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Re: Power Window Relay


Naff,

One thing that still bothers me about this little project is the fact that if you are sitting in the car listening to the radio with the key in ACC position while you wait for some time, our timer circuit will time-out and the windows will not work when you are ready to get out later without turning the key to ON and back off again.

I've been looking for a small version of the pnuematic delay timer switches like the Clipsal ones they used in stairwell lighting switches in the old unit blocks but can't find anything.
Maybe we should allow for a momentary pushbutton which will re-energise the cap and an LED off the transistor to show when the cap is charged ? The LED could be part of the switch and mount it in one of the spare switch panels to keep it neat.

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17/Nov/2006, 3:41 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Sydo Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2006
Location: Victoria, Australia
TOTAL POSTS: 36
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posticon Re: Power Window Relay


Don't you think you may be over-complicating the issue Kev? Can't we just, er.. 'hotwire' the relay in question somehow?

Last edited by Sydo, 17/Nov/2006, 9:03 pm
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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29094
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Re: Power Window Relay


Sydo,

Yes you can emoticon

Hot wire relay pin position 3 & 5 of the power window relay and the windows will go up and down without the key.

Image

Image

Make sure to use a thick wire for this.

Disadvantages of doing this, is that your battery will drain if the car is not running and you use the windows a lot.

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17/Nov/2006, 9:47 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5790
Reply | QUOTE
Re: Power Window Relay


Yeh maybe Sydo,

but a disadvantage would be that with the relay "hot wired" its easier for someone to poke something through the window frame and press on the window switch to open the window and open the car door ?

I'd much rather have something a little more complicated which is only active if I'm in the car and not when I'm away from it.

I'm thinking Naff, that as we are designing this board anyway, probably best all-round functionality-wise to pick up the ACC circuit somewhere for the relay coil power rather than the IGN circuit as originally used.

Last edited by Revhead Kev, 18/Nov/2006, 7:20 am


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