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jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Power Window Relay


Personally, I would prefer to have time to operate the windows after the key is removed from the ignition.

There is also an option to have the windows go up automatically as soon as you remove the key and this is the way some guys got it set-up with the upgraded aftermarket alarm kits, except with the upgraded alarm modules they have the option to arm the alarm for the windows to go up (meaning when you're out of the car and about to lock it)

Jaycar does sell the windows auto wind-up modules and I think they cost about $50 each from memory.

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3/Nov/2006, 4:45 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Power Window Relay


Nath,

Based on what we talked about today in regards to building the time delay circuit ourselves, I have done some research and found this set-up. Let me know if it's close to what you already have in hand.

Power-Off Time Delay Relay

The two circuits below illustrate opening a relay contact a short time after the ignition or light switch is turned off. The capacitor is charged and the relay is closed when the voltage at the diode anode rises to +12 volts. The circuit on the left is a common collector or emitter follower and has the advantage of one less part since a resistor is not needed in series with the transistor base. However the voltage across the relay coil will be two diode drops less than the supply voltage, or about 11 volts for a 12.5 volt input. The common emitter configuration on the right offers the advantage of the full supply voltage across the load for most of the delay time, which makes the relay pull-in and drop-out voltages less of a concern but requires an extra resistor in series with transistor base. The common emitter (circuit on the right) is the better circuit since the series base resistor can be selected to obtain the desired delay time whereas the capacitor must be selected for the common collector (or an additional resistor used in parallel with the capacitor). The time delay for the common emitter will be approximately 3 time constants or 3*R*C. The capacitor/resistor values can be worked out from the relay coil current and transistor gain. For example a 120 ohm relay coil will draw 100 mA at 12 volts and assumming a transistor gain of 30, the base current will be 100/30 = 3 mA. The voltage across the resistor will be the supply voltage minus two diode drops or 12-1.4 = 10.6. The resistor value will be the voltage/current = 10.6/[sign in to see URL] = 3533 or about [sign in to see URL]. The capacitor value for a 15 second delay will be 15/3R = 1327 uF. We can use a standard 1000 uF capacitor and increase the resistor proportionally to get 15 seconds.

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Last edited by jalalski, 6/Nov/2006, 9:06 am


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4/Nov/2006, 6:04 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Scottley Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Carindale
TOTAL POSTS: 26
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Re: Power Window Relay


Ok so here is a "what not to do", in my searching last week i came across a landcruiser website that had a mod for their power windows in which they remove the relay at the fuse panel and replace the + - with a 10amp cable between the two ports. before thinking and using a little common sense i decided that this would work on my [sign in to see URL]. All it does is blow a fuse which does not enable the windows to work at all and the vehicle wont start, upon finding the fuse - "Electric Parts - 10A" and replacing all is now fixed and going again. In summary probably not the brightest idea i have ever had.

The information that you guys have put together on this subject so far is fantastic. well done.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot

2005 NISSAN X-TRAIL T30 II ST Black Manual
6/Nov/2006, 8:00 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5251
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Re: Power Window Relay


quote:

Scottley:

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot



Obviously Scottley you figured out what your quote of T.S Eliot means emoticon

You probably shorted the relay coil connections which would have joined fuse to ground. I doubt if you had shorted the relay contact connections that you would have blown the fuse.

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6/Nov/2006, 12:53 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Power Window Relay


Guys,

I think I found the solution that will not only be possible for the xtrail, but any other car that has central locking and power windows emoticon

Automatic Window Closer

The system I found can do this as quoted by the manufacturer:

quote:


Features:

* Strong practicality. The perambulate device will automatically check and declare the state of windows after driver gets off and locks the door. Function as theft-proof, water-proof.

* Automatically protective function: power supply will be automatically shut down in case of motor, door or window stuck, and the system will skip to the next window and work, so that it protects the power window system.

* Broad scope of application: It can be installed on a car even without alarms or central lock.




I am in the process of obtaining pricing on this system.

Last edited by jalalski, 6/Nov/2006, 3:56 pm


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6/Nov/2006, 1:08 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Power Window Relay


Sorry for late reply guys...

Jalal... those circuits (particularly one on the right) is the right principle. And for roughly $15 (of which $7 is a automotive relay) it might be worth the experiment!

I can rig up a small PCB to simulate it. Better to do that than go head first into cutting the wires in the Exy.

It sure beats the $120 off the shelf things I was looking at... just a little more work.

If it works, a neat little box could be made with simple screw type terminals for everyone to install it themselves.

For 30 seconds of power, we would need 3 x 1000uF caps in parallel... using those values in the picture. Not entirely sure what the actual coil resistance is at this stage.

I'll get on it. emoticon

Interestingly... I found ]this which looks perfect, but don't know where to get them from over here... would need to see the connection schematic too.


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6/Nov/2006, 8:52 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Power Window Relay


Good stuff Nath. I'll await the results of your experiment and hopefully by that time, I will have pricing on the ready made set-up, but I doubt it'll beat the estimated price you mentioned for the DIY option emoticon

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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: Wishart Queensland
TOTAL POSTS: 1567
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Re: Power Window Relay


Hey Jalal,

Can you see if this will also include closing of the sunroof?

Thanks

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6/Nov/2006, 10:15 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Naff Profile
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Date Registered: 09-2005
Location: QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 786
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Re: Power Window Relay


Without having the patience or the right programs to do a better job... I envisage the modified circuit looking something like this...

in or sign up to see linked image content--



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6/Nov/2006, 10:21 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5251
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Re: Power Window Relay


Nath,
You forgot the reverse diode around the relay coil so I've modified your drawing to include it on the circuit board which means you'll need a 4-pole connector instead of a 3-pole.
in or sign up to see linked image content--

Yes Jamie, since the sunroof power comes from the same power relay M3 then the mod will also do the sunroof.

Last edited by Revhead Kev, 7/Nov/2006, 7:50 am


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Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
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