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Gav7 Profile
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Date Registered: 05-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 2
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posticon Air intake design & modifications


Has anyone had problems with the design or position of tha nissan xtrail air intake?With water entering the intake?


DETAILED INSTALLATION GUIDE OF THE COSMO RACING CAI CAN BE FOUND %7Coffset=90#post1993925]HERE


Last edited by jalalski, 11/Oct/2009, 8:44 am
7/May/2005, 2:51 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Air intake design


Hi Gav7 and welcome on board.

Not yet is the answer, however you shouldn't be doing any water crossings above door-sill level.

The exy is not designed for deep-water crossings and the air intake is one of weakest points in this regard. with it's forward facing design it'll scoop water in big time.

A couple of "adventurers" emoticon in this forum have done a very quick deep water crossing at Stockton and there wasn't any damage done from what I saw. The air intake was wet, but the water didn't go through to the air filter box compartment.



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7/May/2005, 3:08 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Gav7 Profile
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Date Registered: 05-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 2
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Re: Air intake design


I went through a small creek to a level half way up the tyre height. Some water splashed over the bonnet,only 10 cm or so over.
The engine stalled , couldn,t start it for 40 min.
Had a noise in the motor. Had it towed back to nissan service dept. They believe the no. 1 conrod is bent.
I've requested to have it repaired under new car warranty. They have refused which wasn't a surprise.
I have consumer protection people examine the car.
They also believe there is a possible deign fault with the position of the air intake.
It should be facing to the side possible behind the battery, away from the front grillas well it should not flow downwards towards the air filter.
Thus if water was to enter it could flow out again.
It would be great if I knew if other people had some problems.
Because in Nissan's web site they show 3 photos of a xtrail going through depths of water far greater than I ever did.

My question again are there any other people with this air intake problem??

7/May/2005, 4:41 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Air intake design


quote:

Gav7 wrote:

Because in Nissan's web site they show 3 photos of a xtrail going through depths of water far greater than I ever did.



Mate, when I bought my car the nissan salesman told me one very good advice which I still remember.

He goes.."Jalal, don't you start swimming or crossing rivers in your xtrail, just like the nissan advert is showing on TV!" emoticon

The same goes for the pics on the nissan web site.

I just hope that your case will be proved as a design error rather than driver/owner mistake.

I seriously doubt that a 10cm splash would have caused this problem as it was much more than that with Rich and Shane.

Check-out the videos of the crossing they've done so you can compare.

click on ([sign in to see URL]) ]HERE

And click on ([sign in to see URL]) ]HERE

I wish you luck with your case against nissan.

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7/May/2005, 6:08 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Air intake design


While I'm no expert on intake design, I think Nissan have done the best they can do without installing a snorkel...

The intake is at the very front of the engine bay - this is needed to ensure cool air is available for the engine. Hot air getting to the engine only means performance is greatly reduced, and "pinging" or "pre-detonation" is greatly increased.

The other factor Nissan has considered is placing it as high in the engine bay as possible, to reduce the chance of creating "hydrolock" - which is what it sounds like you have unfortunately done - got so much water into the engine that it's caused severe damage. Probably not so much to assist against hydrolock, but more to do with the tuning of the air intake to match the engine, Nissan has also included "resonators" into the air intake duct - these are the useless looking chambers that sit below the intake duct before it gets to the air filter. These can also assist in reducing the possibility of hydrolock by catching any excess water that might happen to enter the opening of the air intake duct.

I think for hydrolock to occur, you'd need to severely submerge the front end of the vehicle for a considerable amount of time, or hit the water with such force that it doesn't have a chance to drain into the chambers.


Something probably insignificant, but it's something I've thought of when doing creek crossings, is that the sudden temperature change to the casing of the engine when it's operating at normal temperature, then you plunge it into cold water, might cause sudden stress to the engine block, causing internal damage. I have never heard of this occurring, and don't know the likelihood of it occurring either.



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BRETT72 Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2005
Location: Orange. NSW.
TOTAL POSTS: 1999
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Re: Air intake design


 I was just looking at the air intake design and noticed a second intake tube that runs into the front fender from the base of the filter box.

 Has anyone hooked this up ???

 I understand that in the dirt and/or water, having an intake that comes out in front of the front passenger wheel is not ideal, (read: disasterous) but in general 'around town' driving, surely the added incoming air will improve the exee performance. Or will it ???

 I was thinking of hooking it up with some flexy piping and them placing a 'snorkle sock' type filter on the end. Instead of leaving it down near the front tyre, I'm going to try and run it down near the base of the radiator behind the mesh protecting the raditator.

 In dusty or watery [sign in to see URL], haven't figured out a way to close it off.

 I will post pics once done, but don't hold your breaths. It may take some time.

 Before you ask, the 'snorkle sock', fits over the snorkle and in extremely dusty conditions it acts as a second filter. Made by 'Finer' and stops the main K&N getting damaged.


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BRETT72 - X235

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Date Registered: 12-2004
Location: Mount Isa, QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 1247
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Re: Air intake design


Brett,

I haven't seen this second intake tube and am very curious to see this.

I'd be a bit cautious about leading the intake near the base of the radiator, as you’ll be lowering the intake from it’s original design and placing it at higher risk of sucking up water.

I’ve seen some cold air intake devices that are designed to be low to the ground, although these also have other devices attached to them to prevent water entering the intake.

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5/Jan/2006, 12:49 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
blackxtrailgt Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2005
Location: Northern NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 103
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Re: Air intake design


quote:

I went through a small creek to a level half way up the tyre height. Some water splashed over the bonnet,only 10 cm or so over.
The engine stalled , couldn,t start it for 40 min.
Had a noise in the motor.



Half way up the tyre height, yet water managed to get 10cm up the bonnet?? SO the wave of water was around 50cm high, right!?!?
Even though the throttle body sucks from the top of the airbox and an air filter would stop any large amounts of water from being ingested.. unless the airbox was submerged in water.
Of course, I imagine that you kept trying to start the car every few minutes for the 40 minutes, right? Sucking in more water vapour to the inlet manifold and into the motor.
The air intake faces forward for a reason, like any car designed in the last 10 years. It improves fuel economy on highway journeys by 'forcing' air into the motor, which is also why 'snorkels' are faced forward for their 'ram air effect'

Gav7: I am curious to know who was found to be at fault by consumer affairs?


Brett72: The pipe your talking about actually leads to a fully sealed resonator chamber, which will not allow water in but to drain water out as required thru a small hole in its base. It is designed to remove inlet resonant frequencies and make the engine much smoother in performance.

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5/Jan/2006, 1:15 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28941
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Re: Air intake design


quote:

NPC73 wrote:

I’ve seen some cold air intake devices that are designed to be low to the ground, although these also have other devices attached to them to prevent water entering the intake.



Noel, the "devices" you're talking about have been mnetioned in |offset=60]THIS thread and I presume you're talking about the air by-pass valve which comes as an option with the CAI (Cold Air Intake).

I still prefer the snorkel set-up over the CAI for safer off-roading.



Last edited by jalalski, 9/Oct/2006, 8:08 pm


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5/Jan/2006, 1:25 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Eggins Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2004
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 184
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Re: Air intake design


While I had the bonnet up and the engine running for quite a while one time, the two plastic clips that hold the air intake to the top of the radiator support panel fell apart. One vanished for ever and one ended up in the bottom of the air cleaner box in pieces.

I filed out one of the holes to a square shape and fitted a captive nut (speed nut?) from underneath. I have used a flat headed allen bolt and washer to hold the air intake in place.

Even while the plastic clips were gone, the bonnet seemed to hold the air intake in place.

Here's a pick showing the bolt now holding the air intake:
in or sign up to see linked image content--

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Shawn and Belinda Eggins
2003 STR, K&N, Strut brace, Ground wires, Dunlop LM702's, Tint, Mud flaps, Tow, Nudge, Spots, Mats, Rear scuff plate
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