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debdorro Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2007
Location: Newcastle NSW
TOTAL POSTS: 30
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Well from first hand experience we know that this can be a problem. Dec 2005 at 70000km the car started to jerk and carry on as if I had put bad fuel into it. Took it to Maitland Nissan and they told me I had dirty spark plugs. At that stage I had no reason not to believe them. At 73000kms the car broke down smack bang in the middle of a job (and I can tell you as a pilot driver that isn't real good) had the car towed back to Maitland Nissan (which cost a fortune even through Nissan Care) They told us that the butterfly screws had come out and had smashed the spark plugs closed. They put on a new manifold and assured us (as the hubby is also a mechanic) that the head had been redone and there was no damage to the pistons. Still no reason not to believe them.... Stopped work for xmas so didn't notice too much wrong with it.... 80000kms took it back for service and told them that it lacked power up hills. Their response was "Best X-Trail they had ever driven...

Now you have to understand that I live in my car, I had personally put the 80000kms on it, so even though I am female I know when it is not right. When you have over a 100 tonne load chasing you up a hill and start to overtake you any idiot can realise there is a problem.

Our car went back to Maitland Nissan every couple of weeks, yet they still couldn't find anything wrong. 3 times they called my husband and asked him if he could come up and have a look at it, but they still refused to take the head off saying it was fine. We gave them a full tank of fuel and told them to find a hill to test it on, when we got the car back after a week and told it was fine there was a grand total of 5 kms on it (should point out that the area we live in is fairly flat and it's a good 30mins to the nearest hill.)

During all this time Nissan customer service reps were rude and just as unhelpful as Maitland Nissanand done nothing to help us. And when you are losing over $400 a day you can become pretty irate with people, we weren't even offered a loaner while all this was taking place. They called me stupid and crazy and told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

I challenged them one day and went and had a dyno test done at Newcastle Performance Centre. the bloke there told me the car was running like crap. His findings were:-

"Engine is down on power, standard power is quoted @ 132kw @ 6000 and torque is 245nm @ 4000. From the dyno graphs it shows a clear loss in power with an estimated [sign in to see URL] @ 6000 and torque is estimated @ 192nm @ 4100
With [sign in to see URL] @ the wheel."

I took this to Maitland and they refused to let me speak to the head mechanic, photocopied them and sent me on my way.

In June we found water in the oil and I had lost 1 1/2 litres of oil. I was now using a full tank of fuel to drive to Sydney with me sign up. Called Maitland Nissan and they informed me that they have washed their hands of it.

Called the blokes in at Kloster Nissan and proceeded to tell them the story. I can't praise these blokes enough. Even though she was out of warranty they still wanted to help me. (they even gave me a loaner) They started from the bottom and worked their way up to the engine. One mechanic took it home and couldn't get over Stockton Bridge properly. It was passed backwards and forwards between me and them so I could test it after they had done things. Turns out Maitlands solution to lack of power was to up the fuel intake (which explains why a police officer I was working with one night got up me).

By now it was September 2006 and the only thing Klosters had not yet done was pull the engine apart, (keeping in mind that everyone including Nissan Australia were reassured that the engine was fine from Maitland Nissan.), we received a phone call from Klosters saying we had better come in and have look at the engine ourselves. It was quite a shock to see that my pistons now looked like golf balls instead of the machined look we were expecting. There were chunks missing, damage to the bores and the valves weren't sealing properly. Seven days is all it took Kloster Nissan to replace the engine (under warranty let me add). They are legends....

What troubles me is that I got no support from Nissan Australia at all. If the hubby wasn't in the trade and I was just an ordinary female drive who knew nothing about cars I would have cut my losses a long time ago. We even swore that we would never buy another Nissan again, but when all you have owned is Nissans it's hard to let go. We've also got an '89 Skyline with 500000kms and we only touched the engine for the first time last year. I just feel really let down. And to top it all off I'm $25000 short on my income from the time it broke and the time it was fixed. I'm never gonna see that again....

]Our Album

Also shows damage done to engine....

Last edited by debdorro, 12/Jan/2007, 9:26 pm


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Geoff and Debbie (X489)
2003 White ST - Series 1
12/Jan/2007, 9:08 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28992
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


I can't thank you enough Deb and Geoff for sharing this valuable information with us, this is exactly what we need Nissan Australia to see and finally agree that the Loose Butterfly Screws recall which was announced overseas is indeed real and it DOES affect the xtrail as well as other Nissan's with the QR25DE engine for which the recall was initially announced overseas.

This post has given me enough ammunition to chase Nissan again, this time, they will get photos proving the problem as well as FIVE confirmed cases of this defect taking place in Australia.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write all this up and I do hope that it'll be the end of your problems now that you have a new engine.

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12/Jan/2007, 9:49 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


I agree with Jalal and that is one top example you have share with us, Geoff & Debbie. I am sure Kloster Nissan would've taken their own photos to submit to Nissan Australia. I reckon Nissan Australia will only announce a recall after they've had to deal with enough of these warranty claims that either brings too much bad publicity to them, or it becomes more cost effective to announce the recall than just to repair the broken ones it comes across (through customer's vigilance like yourselves).

If I were you I'd be chasing Nissan Australia through the courts to try to regain your loss of income, but I realise it might be too much hassle taking on such a large company on your own, even with all the evidence pointing in your favour.

I imagine their QC isn't very good, but they're not alone. It's human error (whether laziness on the QC inspector's part, or any number of reasons). I inspected a brand new main switchboard late last year that happened to have a loose connection where the main switch bolts onto the busbar, even though it had the painted stripe on the bolt indicating it had been double-checked and was tight. If I hadn't picked it up, the switchboard could've been toast by now.

Thanks again for sharing your story with us.


Last edited by basshead, 13/Jan/2007, 9:53 am


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Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
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13/Jan/2007, 9:42 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28992
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Guys,

I have emailed a contact within Nissan Australia this thread in its entirety so they can read the information for themselves and also take action to have this defect investigated by Nissan's Engineering Department.

I will let you know if I hear back from Nissan.

Although in my case, Nissan agreed to follow the overseas recall bulletin and perform the recall service, I do believe the problem is much more serious than that and needs to be checked to avoid cases like this from taking place in the future.

The calculation Nissan should be using is very simple and they need to weigh-up the cost of engine replacement against a 3-4 hour labour by the dealerships to have this defect checked out as a safety measure.

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13/Jan/2007, 11:06 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28992
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Hi Guys,

I have received no response from the contact in Nissan about the escalated problem to them. I will now forward this email to the next person up the chain of command and see what happens.

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29/Jan/2007, 10:41 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
lancie49 Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2007
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Oz
TOTAL POSTS: 109
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Thanks for your diligence with this Jalal. It certainly makes me a little nervy knowing about a possible problem, but if Nissan do the right thing by their customers they will continue to have a strong base to build future sales on.
Nissan need to act and act decisively in situations like this.
The Nissan reliability is well known and they cannot afford to have it undermimed by bad P.R.

---
Lance.....X491
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Now I've got an EXy
2005 ST II White Auto.
29/Jan/2007, 10:57 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
DOMBenedict Profile
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Date Registered: 03-2005
TOTAL POSTS: 62
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


quote:

jalalski wrote:

Hi Guys,

I have received no response from the contact in Nissan about the escalated problem to them. I will now forward this email to the next person up the chain of command and see what happens.



Just wondering what might smarten-up Nissan's act here.

I'd be mightily peeved if my Xtrail went the same way as debdorro's - and she has every right to be disgusted with the apalling "denial of service" she received.

Perhaps debdorro might be able to pursue a claim through the NSW Dept of Fair Trading, to recover some of her costs - at least the towing and dyno test costs ought to qualify, maybe more (loss of income, including time to appear and consumer claims tribunal etc.,.). If I understand it right, for warranty claims, you have to pursue the dealer you bought from if the manufacturer fails to repair things effectively.

Nissan might realise it's not the best sales strategy to have their name appearing in Dept of Fair Trading case files.

Don't know whether Fair Trading can be assistance in getting a recall happening - but maybe its worth asking them about that too ? The overseas recall and now local evidence that refutes Nissan's claim that Australian vehicles are not affected - might be enough to argue that the vehicles are not "merchantable quality" and should be inspected and rectified - at least on demand of each customer requesting it.



Regards

DOM
29/Jan/2007, 11:44 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28992
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Dear Members,

I have received the following official response from Nissan Australia to my query about the loose intake butterfly screws. The response came in this morning.

quote:


Hi Jalal,

Happy New Year to also and I trust 2007 is the best year ever for you and your loved ones. In relation to your enquiry I would respond as follows:

Our Engineering Department are fully aware of the few cases experienced in Australia and that Nissan Japan have been fully informed of these incidents & our situation.

Incident parts from Australian
cases have been returned to Japan for their technical investigation. We have been assured by Nissan Japan that, while the incidents may appear or look similar to those commented on in the Recall Campaign in
USA, the root cause of the incident is totally different. That's because
the engines for the USA models are made in a different plant (and in different continent) from those made for the Australian X-TRAIL.

We are also assured that effective production countermeasures have been taken for the cause identified for the "Australian cases".

Finally as you would be aware, the incident ratio of this problem for the Australian X-TRAIL has been extremely low.

Nevertheless you can rest assured that if the problem is encountered in the field Nissan will not walk away form our responsibility for this or any other warranty issues.

I trust this answers your questions and once again wish you all the best
for the future.

Nissan Australia
Name provided



So guys, it seems that Nissan are on the ball with this recall and by the sounds of it, they're fully aware of the potential damages this may cause to our xtrails locally and assuring us that such cases will dealt with through warranty.

What I will ask next is our position if this defect does happen OUT of the warranty period and what will be Nissan's stance on it.

EDIT: I have received the following follow-up to the warranty question I raised (see above)

quote:


Hi Jalal,

As advised in the last line of my e-mail "if the problem is encountered in the field, Nissan will not walk away from our responsibility for this or any other warranty issues" which basically means that we would support the customer both inside & outside normal warranty given that there are no extraneous factors involved.

I trust this is clear.

Regards,
Name Provided




Last edited by jalalski, 30/Jan/2007, 10:14 am


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30/Jan/2007, 9:43 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5291
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Thanks Jalal,

I understand your reasoning in keeping the Nissan contact annonamous, so I trust that if any of us do have this problem in the future then we could call upon your help to contact the appropriate Nissan representative for confirmation the work will be carried out as a warranty claim.

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30/Jan/2007, 12:20 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 28992
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Re: **Loose intake butterfly screws**


Yes Kev and you can refer the dealer to this thread or have a copy of it printed should the need arises and you will be in dispute with the dealer over this defect.

I will be able to provide the name and contact details of the authority in Nissan Australia directly to the dealer in question.

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30/Jan/2007, 12:58 pm Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 


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