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armbarcrashdummy Profile
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Date Registered: 11-2005
Location: Canberra, ACT
TOTAL POSTS: 21
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


You are beginning to scare me Jalal... emoticon

Thanks,

Joe.

---
"By my calculations, when that baby hits 88 miles an hour....you're going to see some serious ****."

2/2004 X-Trail ST II - Black Obsidian
20/Nov/2005, 9:53 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29088
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


hehehe

I'm scaring myself.

The X-Trail Robot LOL

---

20/Nov/2005, 9:57 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
waky53 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2005
Location: Barossa Valley
TOTAL POSTS: 286
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


quote:

armbarcrashdummy wrote:

Has anyone got a schematic of the earth points? I can probably figure out most of it with a multimeter, but I'd like to see a 'formal' layout of the QR25DE.



Check out the Pivot site mentioned in the post near the top. They show the diagram of where to attach the earth points. In their case all the leads go back to the battery negative terminal. I think the other site has leads going from the various points back to the chassis.
Make sure that the cable is big enough to carry the loads. Too small a cable could cause more problems than it is supposed to solve.

---
Regards Dave, X162 Oct 04 Series 2 ST
Mods Strut bar_Fuel cap holder_earth wires_No door beep_Bonnet Struts_TBS_bash plate_16" Alloys_Rear sway bar_ F&R fogs
High Range 4WD Club
20/Nov/2005, 9:32 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
waky53 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2005
Location: Barossa Valley
TOTAL POSTS: 286
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


I have just put on about 5 new earth leads at various points around the engine (battery to body, battery to engine, a couple of spots where there are numerous earth leads I added another lead to the body, alternator frame to the body)
I bought 5m of the heavy duty cable (630 x 0.12 @2.50/meter) from d*** Smith & some of the yellow connectors, some 6mm bolts & washers for another $5-$10. About an hour of time to make up some leads & bolt them in place.
I probably still have 3m of the cable left so for $20 & a little time I may see some improvements. Will let you know when I have a drive.

---
Regards Dave, X162 Oct 04 Series 2 ST
Mods Strut bar_Fuel cap holder_earth wires_No door beep_Bonnet Struts_TBS_bash plate_16" Alloys_Rear sway bar_ F&R fogs
High Range 4WD Club
24/Nov/2005, 10:27 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Eggins Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2004
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 184
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


I'll start by explaining that we have had a long running minor problem with the Xtrail, now on 67000km and it started playing up about 40000km. One of the best ways I've found to explain it is "uneven acceleration" between 2000rpm and 3000rpm. Once we hit 3000rpm the xtrail really goes. Below 3000 it was fairly gutless and would often be a bit jerky when under light load like coming out of a corner or up a slight incline. Heavy loads seemed to hide the poor performance. Using premium unleaded gave better performance on the highway but exagerated the problems at low speed, ordinary unleaded was smoother in the city.
To Nissans credit, and the dealer, they never ignored us and tried several things, including replacing the computer and throttle body cleans. This seemed to fix it for a couple of days but the problems crept back in. The computer never once showed any errors.
Installing a K&N filter gave better overall performance but once again didn't change the real problem.
I got serious with it on the weekend and had a good poke around in the engine bay - decided the earthing needed looking at.
The negative lead from the battery looks big enough so I decided to leave it alone at the battery end. However there is a terminal that connects to the chassis rail under the battery (I'll call this EARTH POINT 1), best access from underneath. It then goes to the gearbox.
There's also a small earth wire from the same chassis rail to a bracket on the gearbox.
I cleaned all of these one at a time, scraped the paint away from around the mounting holes (boy that's a mission! - I mean undercoat too!) and refitted them using a shakeproof washer between the terminals and the chasssis to really bite in.
On the drivers side there are earth wires on the timing cover and on the alternator bracket, I cleaned these up with a wire brush and refitted as paint and mud shouldn't be a problem here.
The alternator earth goes down to (almost under) the coolant bottle. Best to take the coolant bottle out (one bolt) and move it aside. Once again I scraped away the paint to bear metal and refitted with a shakeproof washer.
Next, there is another earth point on the inner gaurd which seems to be the earth for lights and a whole range of stuff: same treatment here. I also ran a heavy Jumper lead sized wire from this point back to EARTH POINT 1, following the rest of the wiring loom in front of the radiator.

Scraping away paint! I hear you cry?!? well I just needed to get the xtrail back to its old self since nothing else had made any difference. I sprayed all my handywork with some spray grease for the time being. I'll probably apply some Corrode Cure later to keep out and counteract any corrosion.

You wouldn't believe it! The car is like new! All the torque is back in the 2000 to 3000rpm range and it is smooth. Gear changes are smoother, especially down changing for some reason. I think this has got to be better for our fuel economy, which has always been good anyway. The car is HEAPS smoother to drive in the city now. I've tested it for a couple of days now and it's still going good, even after driving through lots of water and VERY heavey rain in Brisbane on Sunday.

Probaly the moral of the story is: the standard Nissan earth points are enough provided they actually work in the first place. Spending money on more cabling is not entirely essential but may be a good backup plan. You still need the original Nissan earth points to work properly regardless of how many other wires you run around the engine bay. Don't be shy about using the good old fashioned shakeproof "star" washers. If you do any offraoding (or not), they'll keep your electrics working for years. I think all of the above can apply to any vehicle old or new, any make or model.

I have had loads of rally experience and wired up complete cars from scratch more than once, and I just don't know why I didn't think of this sooner! I guess I was relying on the computer to tell us what was wrong when it had no way of measuring this fault.

Hope this can help others.

Shawn Eggins
2003 STR

---
Shawn and Belinda Eggins
2003 STR, K&N, Strut brace, Ground wires, Dunlop LM702's, Tint, Mud flaps, Tow, Nudge, Spots, Mats, Rear scuff plate
http://eggins.synthasite.com/
29/Nov/2005, 12:06 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
NPC73 Profile
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Date Registered: 12-2004
Location: Mount Isa, QLD
TOTAL POSTS: 1247
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


Hi Shawn,

Nice to have you back. I haven’t seen you here for a while.

Thanks for the explanation. There been plenty of talk about bad earthing of the exy, I wasn't sure if it was all hog wash, but from the sounds of it from you, it does seem that the exy does have a grounding/earthing issue to which I now want to investigate further.

Not sure if I'm just going for a self-clean like you did or not. Am currently considering purchasing a cable upgrade kit. I've just reached 40000km and have no problems with the exy yet, although it does seem I will eventually have some probs later, so this mod will eventually become a necessity.

Last edited by NPC73, 29/Nov/2005, 12:59 am


---
Noel...
Member ID: X-072 (Retired Administrator)
2003 X-trail, TI, Manual, (Series 1) - (with the works)
2013 Toyota Prado, Manual, Turbo Diesel - (Snorkel-K&N-Full Exhaust, 20" Low Profiles, Chrome Bullbar, HID Spots, + All the Bling!)
29/Nov/2005, 12:30 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
jalalski Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: SUTHERLAND, SYDNEY
TOTAL POSTS: 29088
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


Shawn is correct.

I should have mentioned previously that even with the grounding kit upgrade and nice looking wires, you will be required to clean the contact areas for better grounding.

So you may want to follow what Shawn has done first, then upgrade the wiring if you're not satisfied.


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29/Nov/2005, 7:47 am Link to this post Send Private Message MSN Blog
 
basshead Profile
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Date Registered: 02-2004
Location: Panania, Sydney
TOTAL POSTS: 2852
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


Speaking from extensive car audio experience, I was going to say that probably the most likely cause is not the cabling itself, but the connections that have been made.

I've also always been very sceptical of those "grounding kits", but Shawn has hit the nail on the head (excellent post!) and narrowed it down to the connections being the problem.

I think this would have to be a "one off" ocurrence, and wouldn't expect many other X-Trails to share this problem, even if an auto electrician says generally X-Trails have bad earths. I am very surprised it's happened to Shawns virtually new (2003) - I think it would be more likely to be a manufacturing fault (too much undercoat sprayed on over the earth points).

Again, while there's nothing wrong with the "grounding kits" - they will have bigger cables (ie: less resistance) so that is a good thing, but like Jalal said, make sure you scrape back to bare metal before bolting the lugs back onto the chassis (and painting over the connection afterwards is highly recommended to prevent contamination to the connections).


---
Rich. X-013(c)
'04 S2 ST Auto. Nudge_roofracks_tow_tints_Lightforce_GME_YokoGeoA/T-S_TBS_bashplate_50mm-spacer-lift
Click here to see >300MB of photos and videos All For His Glory.
29/Nov/2005, 5:05 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message MSN Yahoo Blog
 
waky53 Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2005
Location: Barossa Valley
TOTAL POSTS: 286
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


Well after reading Shawns story, the impression I have got after a week driving with my new wires is that I thought it was running smoother. I thought at first I might have been imagining the improvement. The only other thing is a night drive to see if the lights are any better. Have you noticed a better light output with this Shawn?

---
Regards Dave, X162 Oct 04 Series 2 ST
Mods Strut bar_Fuel cap holder_earth wires_No door beep_Bonnet Struts_TBS_bash plate_16" Alloys_Rear sway bar_ F&R fogs
High Range 4WD Club
29/Nov/2005, 11:58 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 
Eggins Profile
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Date Registered: 08-2004
Location: Brisbane
TOTAL POSTS: 184
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Re: Poor vehicle earth/ground


Strangely, it didn't seem to affect the lights. I think that where ever the voltage drop was, it was only tiny and only affecting the reading of a sensor. Some sensors only have a range of say 2 volts ! A half or even quarter of a volt difference could make a drastic difference to the car once the computer has used that bad information to control spark, injector and cam timing to name a few.

Our dealer has checked out our car since the repairs and is looking at giving us a discount on a future service and maybe throwing in a free bottle of injector cleaner due to the trouble we had.
The dealer said that Nissan told them it was the only car in Aust doing this. The dealer asked about earthing and the Nissan tech said "No, it'll be the computer for sure...."
I'm going to ask them to reset the computer at the next service just to make sure we're not dragging around any learnt bad behaviour.

Our very nice dealer is Ian Boettcher Motors - Ipswich (outside Brisbane)



---
Shawn and Belinda Eggins
2003 STR, K&N, Strut brace, Ground wires, Dunlop LM702's, Tint, Mud flaps, Tow, Nudge, Spots, Mats, Rear scuff plate
http://eggins.synthasite.com/
8/Dec/2005, 10:21 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message
 


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