Poor vehicle earth/grounding https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/t123983 Runboard| Poor vehicle earth/grounding en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 10:24:57 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 10:24:57 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re:https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2057526,from=rss#post2057526https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2057526,from=rss#post2057526so i have read an article in an old auto salon magazine where they compare all the different types of grounding kits they dyno'd the car before and after and also compared audio quality from a big system and for something like the HKS kit which is like $100 they found that it pretty much is a complete waste of money for the results they got (which was almost non excitant). Honestly I'm sure you could make your own up from a suitable gauge wire and gold plated connectors for a fraction of the price.. I'm pretty sure they used a variety of cars for the audio side and I think they used a soarer for the so called HP gains.. i have this mag somewhere so i can verify it all but that means going through the pile... it may take some time.. nondisclosed_email@example.com (krisskross1985)Wed, 26 Oct 2011 21:16:59 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048286,from=rss#post2048286https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048286,from=rss#post2048286 I have never owned a car that has given me more static shocks, than the x-trail. I think it is directly related to plastic panels on the outside, and plastic trim on the inside. I can get shocked from half a metre away, when wearing quick-dry boardies ... spring is worse I have run one new Negative wire, from the O2 sensor mount to the battery negative teminal...I havent found any real evidence of "poor earthing" in the car ie high Ohms readingsnondisclosed_email@example.com (Robbo0001)Thu, 02 Dec 2010 20:56:45 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048270,from=rss#post2048270https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2048270,from=rss#post2048270I have a question for all the sparkys that have posted on this earthing prob. will bad earthing/grounding cause ecessive static electricity? i have installed a grandpa rubber (that rubber strip that hangs from the chassis) and low and behold not one since, and this is fact. could this be proof that the xtrails (my xtrail) has earthing probs?nondisclosed_email@example.com (boodz)Thu, 02 Dec 2010 12:01:37 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047852,from=rss#post2047852https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047852,from=rss#post2047852No worries Hendra, I must have mis-read your post in the other thread which gave that impression nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:38:40 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047848,from=rss#post2047848https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047848,from=rss#post2047848It didn't add power, it just made the lights a little brighter, more responsive throttle and the car wants to shift down a gear or two. The extra power/torque came from the unichip piggyback=) Regardsnondisclosed_email@example.com (he22wa)Mon, 15 Nov 2010 12:09:19 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047846,from=rss#post2047846https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2047846,from=rss#post2047846quote:he22wa wrote: Hi peoples Old thread I know but I just installed Pivot grounding kit. I was a bit skeptical at first but it positively, definitely and genuinely works Hi Hendra, Do you have a dyno proof showing the before and after power and torque increase after fitting the Pivot Grounding kit? You have claimed a substantial torque gain in one of your other posts and I would be most interested in seeing it on a dyno chart (but on your xtrail, not from the Pivot website). It doesn't matter where the car was built, they share the same engine, transmission and wiring points, so if it didn't work on a number of xtrails in the world for other users of this grounding kit, am surprised that it did for you.nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Mon, 15 Nov 2010 07:20:41 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2046010,from=rss#post2046010https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p2046010,from=rss#post2046010Hi peoples Old thread I know but I just installed Pivot grounding kit. I was a bit skeptical at first but it positively, definitely and genuinely works I bought it a year ago and installed it in my Honda Odyssey 1998 and didn't see the difference. So recently, I took it off and put it in the exy. Right after I installed it, I took it for a drive and my word, the throttle response has improved dramatically, the engine feels beefier and now the tranny wants to change gears. yayyyyyy Previously on highways and freeways when I want to overtake and WOT the car seems reluctant to shift down from 4th to 2nd or 3rd. So most of the time I have to shift it down 'manually' to '2'. The grounding kit seems to have solved this problem. I'm very satisfied and happy I know there has been a debate on this topic in previous pages and I don't know if it will work as effectively on Australian exies. The reason I say this is because my exy is locally built in Indonesia and they always will try to find ways to cut down costs aka 'downgrade'. That is why my exy is in the absence of the 4WD system. It came from the factory with small batteries, lack of sound proofing and groundings. Anyways this is my experience. Good luck peeps Regards, Hendra nondisclosed_email@example.com (he22wa)Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:09:42 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870373,from=rss#post870373https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870373,from=rss#post870373As far as i am concerned,the next time a auto sparky tells you,that you need a better earth,tell him run his meter around the car and prove it.That is all i did and proved it was nothing but rubbish as my readings were perfect and could not be improved on even if i run another ten earths.Thats all i am saying on the subject,buy more chrome gents.nondisclosed_email@example.com (duxbac)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 12:52:15 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870372,from=rss#post870372https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870372,from=rss#post870372You could try a ghetto mod, just cover the grounding cables in alfoil. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BRETT72)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:48:58 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870371,from=rss#post870371https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870371,from=rss#post870371quote:BRETT72 wrote:  What about the cable I gave you at Hi-Tech, it wasn't 'chrome' enough. I can only consider it chrome when the sun reflection makes me close my eyes from not being able to look at it. hehehehe But thanks for the sample anyway and thanks for your honest opinion nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:54:29 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870370,from=rss#post870370https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870370,from=rss#post870370Phil,  If you check back in this topic, I stood out front and copped it from all angles, defending the value/worth of the grounding kit....BUT, it is not a performance enhancement. Brighter lights, smoother idle, faster power windows (LOL), are not 'performance enhancements'. I was involved in the livechat and even copped a bit of flack there too, but the end result is that it is not a 'performance enhancement'. I believe it does what I claim it does, but my car does not go faster and my fuel efficiency was not effected.    I love my cables and enjoy the looks on other exee's owners when I pop my bonnet (or is it the strut bar, or maybe the engine cover that gets the attention).  So to answer your question, I have fitted them and I have also researched this topic extensively via the numerous other QR25DE other Sentra forums. They are mostly of the same opinion, no noticeable performance gains.  quote:Jalal said, Will I try it? maybe (if I find some nice looking chrome cables)  What about the cable I gave you at Hi-Tech, it wasn't 'chrome' enough.nondisclosed_email@example.com (BRETT72)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 08:35:12 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870369,from=rss#post870369https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870369,from=rss#post870369Sorry to disappoint you Phil. You should have participated in the live chat where MANY actual users of this kit CONFIRMED what I have stated earlier. I was only conveying a message that was passed to this forum by participants of the live chat and it would have been good to have you on board to prove MANY wrong if you believe in it so strongly. Nobody noticed any increase in power as claimed by MANY sites and manufacturers of these kits. The statement "it is indeed a myth" were the exact words I took away from the international live chat session where we all agreed it actually was. (in terms of giving increased power and being a performance enhancement) I don't need to do this mod just to prove the above point correct, first because my xtrail doesn't suffer from having dim lights, second, because I don't see a huge and evident problem with idle and/or acceleration which would justify me starting to scrap and strip paint. The ONLY reason I will think of doing this mod is "cosmetic" to have the engine bay look a bit pretty with those colourful cables dangling around For your information the xtrail has MANY more grounding points inside the cabin than those externally which you have cleaned, are you planning to get to these too? By no means am stopping anyone from this forum or otherwise from going a head with this mod and everybody is entitled to their opinion EVEN KIDS! But for someone or for many manufacturers to claim that it is a performance enhancement, sorry, this won't go down well and the pretty graphs they're showing on their web sites with increased HP is nothing but bait advertising! Will I try it? maybe (if I find some nice looking chrome cables) Will I claim increased HP as a result of this mod? Highly doubt it! nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:30:05 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870368,from=rss#post870368https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870368,from=rss#post870368Jalal is it only a myth because you haven't tried it!! Have you even tried cleaning the original earth points to see if there is any difference? If not why not as this is a task that does not cost a cent & can be done by everyone on this forum! As I stated before the car idled smoother & actually felt a lot crisper after this "cosmetic change". For someone to state "because it is indeed a myth" without even trying this is like a kid saying "I don't like it, without tasting it". You have your opinion but I will stick by mine as others will who have tried this simple improvement & noticed a slight difference in the running of their vehicle will!! nondisclosed_email@example.com (xtrailing)Mon, 27 Mar 2006 06:08:57 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundinghttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870367,from=rss#post870367https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870367,from=rss#post870367Hi Guys, During the international live chat last night, we have discussed the grounding kit mod in MUCH detail and after a lengthy debate we have all (many xtrailers worldwide) concluded that this is in no way a performance enhancement mod and more of a cosmetic one. The only "questionable" improvements this mod gives is probably better head-light brightness, but this can also be achieved by cleaning the existing grounding points in your car. This mod will therefore no longer be referred to as "performance mod" not on our forum at least, because it is indeed a myth as correctly mentioned by some in this thread.nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:55:11 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870366,from=rss#post870366https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870366,from=rss#post870366Hi,xtrailing,yes the headlight circuits appear to be light,but they are only designed for AD27 type globes ie 55/60 watts,which are the legal ones.All car companies spend the least amount of money on every thing ,including the wiring,and some engineer and accountant have sat down and worked this out.The looms are proberly made in china or mexico.After talking to the mechanics i know who service X-trails,their comment is the x-trail is not known for electrical problems.Anway if i was going to put on a extra earth,i would put one between the top of the engine to the earth firewall connection behind the right hand headlight.When i was in traralgon the other day i purchased at long last a petrol cap holder,hold your breath a whole $1.30.I should come out of retirement and go into business making up earth leads for exy/s.Cheers gents,buy more chrome.nondisclosed_email@example.com (duxbac)Sat, 04 Mar 2006 07:59:12 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870365,from=rss#post870365https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870365,from=rss#post870365Cool With so many sparky's on our forum, I feel much safer already to do more wire cutting in my xtrail and yell out for help if I get in trouble. hehehehenondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Sat, 04 Mar 2006 07:13:05 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870364,from=rss#post870364https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870364,from=rss#post870364Brett, I'm a sparky with over 25 years experience as well & know the importance of a good earth & I believe you!! As you know I have performed this "COSMETIC CHANGE" to my vehicle with a noticable improvement as per report in a previous thread. As for manufacturers having "some descent idea" of how to wire a car, all you have to do is look at the headlight wiring to know how much of an idea they really have!! Manufacturers build to a budget & use the bare minimum to perform the required task, & thats my 2 bobs worth! Cheers Phil  nondisclosed_email@example.com (xtrailing)Sat, 04 Mar 2006 07:01:17 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870363,from=rss#post870363https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870363,from=rss#post870363quote:I dont think I found the main earth point underneath  It is best acessed from the front of the vehicle, passenger side. Slide under until you are almost directly below the firewall. Look up to your left. If you stretch your arm up into this cavity, it is about mid forearm distance. There are two grounding spots on the same cable, about 20cm apart, which runs from the -ve battery terminal, under the battery cradle and then down to the subframe. It is about a 6gauge black cable. There is also a 10gauge nearby.nondisclosed_email@example.com (BRETT72)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:26:28 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870362,from=rss#post870362https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870362,from=rss#post870362I too am an Electrician & was sceptical on reading the first reports, but having access to cable & lugs & crimper I gave it a go. At first I thought I may be imagining the results, but I am sure the exy is now running smoother. I dont think I found the main earth point underneath everyone is mentioning. I just concentrated on extra earths to the engine area.nondisclosed_email@example.com (waky53)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 20:12:52 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870361,from=rss#post870361https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870361,from=rss#post870361Ray, According to what you're saying, maybe we should change the subject of this thread to say "cosmetic mod" hahahaha That way everyone will be happy There MUST be a reason why nearly everyone is giving this mod a positive feedback (apart from the looks) After I read what you stated above, I'm now interested in trying this more than ever to see for myself. I'm one of those guys that don’t believe, until they see LOL No offence to you of course. I'm also not afraid to admit failure and waste of money for nothing and if this is the case, I will let you know that too. nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:11:11 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870360,from=rss#post870360https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870360,from=rss#post870360Look i just for fun i ran my fluke meter around the exy with the pos lead jammed on the pos battery terminal and put the neg lead all around the body under the engine bay,all voltage readings are the same.I also ran a 100watt spotlight,one lead on the bat pos and used the other to touch all earhing spots and had a nice bright light,a bit of a rough test but,a little current pull,also very good..I also took off the earthing cable that is attached to the body near the right headlight.The screw was nice and shiny thus providing the earth,if you want to clean off the paint and make a larger surface for the crimp lug fine,a little bit of vaselene or zinc paint .You can run all these earths if you like and loop every thing up,it will do no harm,but i also believe,no gain.Just a quick observation,and my earths are great,according to the quick readings i took,for whats its worth.My headlights work well,all my circuits work well,and my engine idles like a turbine,very smooth,and does not surge on the highway at speed.Cheers,If you want to spend money on something,buy some chrome bits and get in competition with jalal,ha,hanondisclosed_email@example.com (duxbac)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 16:11:54 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870359,from=rss#post870359https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870359,from=rss#post870359 I too was 'am' a sparky, so I'm not just following the path of others. I have researched this topic and believe that all grounding systems can be improved. I am not saying that it will give you any hp gains, but if you look in every x-trail or QR25 forum, there is a lot of this being done, with only minimal negative feedback.  If you look at the grounding points of the x-trail, in particular the engine bay, you will see that they are grounded directly to the chasis, through paint. It is my opinion (and we all have one), direct metal on metal is a MUCH better grounding contact. What about the main grounding point under the car. Mine had so much grit there it was unbelievable. In these instances, the standard contact relies on the connector screw or bolt to make contact with the metal. Also, when you consider the amount of vibrations in the engine bay, this contact cannot be all that constant.  I have measured some 'before' levels between various points, voltage drops etc and will endeavour to do another measurement when I get the car back next week.  As with EVERY aspect of modifications, or life in general, there is a 'FOR' side and an 'AGAINST' side. I am standing by my installations and the results I believe I am getting.nondisclosed_email@example.com (BRETT72)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 11:51:50 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870358,from=rss#post870358https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870358,from=rss#post870358As a retired sparky,who worked on electronic faults and long 24voltdc control circuits,i find this whole theme to be nothing but rubbish.A good earth is a good earth,and any gains would be in your mind,and i would like some one to measure it.If there was a gain it would be that small it would be not worth the trouble.I would think the nissan motor company would have some decent idea how to wire and earth there vechicles.We are talking about vechicles that are used every day and not rally cars which extract every gain they can.Modern cars run more circuits and many more fuses and the wiring and protection are much better.The exy is fitted with a huge alternater and a very good voltage regulater and on my inspection the earthing is good like all modern cars.The wiring insulation is much better,i really do not know what this is all about,my exy runs like a clock at nearly 70thousand klicks.Any way this is my opinion and after working on many conveyor faults and knowing all about volt drop and lousy connections,damaged cables which you get in the trade i worked in i think this is a bit of ho-hum,really fellows. nondisclosed_email@example.com (duxbac)Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:58:31 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870357,from=rss#post870357https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870357,from=rss#post870357If someone can provide an independant dyno reult, then I will concede the point of HP increase. So far all I've seen are people with vested interests.(I'd like to be proven wrong) Even the article Jalal provides states that detrioation is the problem, not the earthing system it's self. As to the part talking about WRC cars, forget comparing the standard car earthing system to $1m WRC car. They are nothing alike. I've built ARC cars and the earthing system consists of bus bars. If I had $10,000 to put a bus bar system through my car I'd do it as well.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AKAK9)Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:04:04 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870356,from=rss#post870356https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870356,from=rss#post870356Hi Andrew, The power gains are not something astronomical with this mod, but there are proven power gains indeed. Have a look at the dyno tests of the Pivot kit for example. And this is an interesting exract from an article posted on the Nissan Performance Magazine (which talks about rally cars too) quote: What are grounding kits supposed to do and do they improve performance? Thanks, Paul All electrical circuits consist of a source and a ground. The chassis is the ground for cars and all electrical circuits are tied to it. Engine performance relies on how well electronic components are connected. OEM systems are adequate for the job but use small gauge wiring which over time, tends to deteriorate. Grounding kits are meant to guarantee a clean ground to the battery and a better electrical circuit, letting sensors and electronics operate quicker and without as much resistance or noise. Much like when your speakers have interference and are static sounding, the culprit is usually a bad ground. Good grounds are important but are the kits worth the money? If you’re car or electrical experience still includes handholding, it’s an alternative to DIY but with a crimper and bigger gauge wires, you could reground the wires yourself. I recommend using 4 gauge, high audio grade 1666 strand count, 99.99% oxygen free copper wire for the best conductivity. It doesn’t need to be a shielded wire since it doesn’t carry a signal. Newer engines probably don’t need to be re-grounded as their connections have not likely deteriorated. The world rally championship cars use grounding kits and they typically have more advanced electronics where it is most important to have the least amount of impedance in the circuit for accurate and efficient sensoring.nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:26:36 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870355,from=rss#post870355https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870355,from=rss#post870355Then my comment is that the earth must have been rubbish to start with. If this is the case then sure a rewire will give a noted improvement, but the same can be achieved by pulling off all the ground wires and giving them a simple clean. I will agree that rewiring your earth points will make the engine run better, but until you get your car on a dyno then I remain unconvinced that any KWs are to be gained. By the way, I've used Vas for 15 years and sure it picks up rubbish on the outside, just not on the contact point. Doesn't every one use Vas on their battery terminals? Anyway this is a side issue.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AKAK9)Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:21:38 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870354,from=rss#post870354https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870354,from=rss#post870354Akak9, if you had a good look at the earthing points on the xtrail you would realize that the only benefit of smearing them with vas would be to attract dust. Unless vas has a new ingredient that dissolves paint(watch out when used elsewhere!!!) there would be no benefit. As I have mentioned before the difference in the vehicle after this very simple mod was quite noticable in my case!nondisclosed_email@example.com (xtrailing)Sun, 26 Feb 2006 06:39:11 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870353,from=rss#post870353https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870353,from=rss#post870353I know I'm coming in late, but I must say I have been reading this thread with a smile on my face. Electrical current is impaired by resistance between two points. Resistance is increased by foreign material getting in between contact points. You-bewt flashy cables don't improve HP, they just return the car to the resistance that is simlar to when the car rolled out of the factory. You can get just as good results by putting a bit of vaseline between earthing points. (Costs a heap less too) I've built rally cars for a living and never in my time have fancy electrical cables given "wonder" results. Basically it's a crock.nondisclosed_email@example.com (AKAK9)Sat, 25 Feb 2006 23:05:53 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870352,from=rss#post870352https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870352,from=rss#post870352Found it, thanks. nondisclosed_email@example.com (BRETT72)Fri, 24 Feb 2006 20:35:53 +0000 Re: Poor vehicle earth/groundhttps://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870351,from=rss#post870351https://baustralianxtrail.runboard.com/p870351,from=rss#post870351quote:xtrailing wrote:  Maybe they have changed the strut bar design since mine? Cheers Phil. No design changes have been made, it's still as good as it used to be nondisclosed_email@example.com (jalalski)Fri, 24 Feb 2006 19:58:45 +0000