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Etay Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2017
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Starting issues - help!


Hey! First time on the forum
I would like to hear your advise about starting problem in my '02 xtrail.

In the last two weeks i have had some problems to start the car.
One day, I walked to the car and tried to start it but it wouldn't start, it would just crank and wouldn't exceed 500rpm
Since then sometimes the car starts with no problems at all, sometimes it need couples of long cranks while pumping the accelerator paddle, and sometimes the only thing that works is to jumpstart it with another running car.

When the car starts, even if it has been hard to start it, the car runs smooth without any problems.

The Facts:
3 mechanics plugged it to 3 different scanners and no error code came up.
No engine light in the dashboard.
Battery checked, new alternator.
Fuel pump relay checked.
Spark plugs checked
Flushed the motor, changed oil and oil filter.

4 different mechanics couldn't help me.. I really need a good advise
Thanks
Ethan

Nissan X-trail 2002
Ti(4X4)
2.5
Manual
Petrol
3/Jul/2017, 3:36 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Etay Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2017
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re: Starting issues - help!


Update
A mechanic told me it may be the fuel filter
So i will give it a try

Anyway this morning it happen again, and I only manage to start ot using jumper cables and some nice people.

5/Jul/2017, 12:45 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Etay Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2017
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re: Starting issues - help!


I replaced the fuel filter two weeks ago, and the car seemed to be back in perfect shape

but, yesterday it gave up again, and couldn't start it even with jumper cables.

There is no engine light, and no error codes showing in the scanner.

does someone has an idea of what to check?
22/Jul/2017, 3:25 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Revhead Kev Profile
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Date Registered: 10-2006
Location: Mona Vale, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
TOTAL POSTS: 5308
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Re: Starting issues - help!


Firstly, you should not pump the accelerator while trying to start the Xtrail. Our electronic ignition and Engine Control does not need it and could make starting the engine harder.

Secondly, one those times when it was difficult to start, how far did you run the Xtrail the time before it ? Was it just a small distance out of the garage or along the driveway to move it ?

---
Kev X450(c) T30 Guru
03 Titanium Ti T30 Series 1 **MODIFIED**
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24/Jul/2017, 2:44 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Wiz Au Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2017
Location: Canberra, ACT
TOTAL POSTS: 185
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Re: Starting issues - help!


If you replaced the fuel filter, and it ran perfectly (didn't starve for fuel at high revs) for a while and if jump starting seems to make a difference (higher voltage/more current?), and you have checked the fuel pump relay, then it points to a fuel pump issue, and apparently this in not unheard of in Exy's.

I know this is a PITA, but putting a fuel pressure gauge on the injector line and seeing what the fuel pressure is when it won't start would be a good diagnostic step. But as I'm "old skoool", you may be able to check the fuel pressure using a bluetooth OBD II adapter and a mobile phone app.

---
2004 T30 series II, Ti (now sold)
JRR50 Pathfinder, QD32ETi Turbo Diesel, with 'lots o fruit'.
2012 Jeep Cherokee KK CRD Limited is current ride.
Will be looking for a white or silver 2011-2013 T31 TL (Diesel) to "pimp out".
25/Jul/2017, 1:03 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
artymr2 Profile
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Date Registered: 01-2011
Location: Perth
TOTAL POSTS: 73
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Re:


Have yoto checked your battery is nice and healthy? Our x trail would crank but not fire when the battery was weak. The only car I have had that did this. Normally on other cars if it has enough juice to crank over it would fire.

Cheers

---
T31 Ti CVT Silver
29/Jul/2017, 12:34 am Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Etay Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2017
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re:


Hey guys,

Thanks for all the replies, I have been working in a remote location so couldn't check your advices

But a couple of things
1. The car still does some issues once in a while, and when it's happening it's stays for a while.
2. I checked the battery, and tried a new different one, still doesn't start
3. When the issue happens, it can happen after a short drive or after a long one, it doesn't seems to be the flooding of the engine.
4. Fuel pressure, I checked it with a gauge, seems to be alright(49PSI), but didn't check yet when the car wasn't starting.

And now for the big thing
I discovered some milky texture in the oil cup, and the engine shakes for 10-15 seconds when I start the car until I rev her up.
I suspect this is a head gasket leak emoticon



Some questions
1. Can a fuel pump fail inconsistently?
2. Can the leak in the head gasket cause all this trouble??
3. Did someone used a head gasket seal fluid and lived to tell?
4. Does a blocked fuel filter/bad fuel pump can cause head gasket leak?

Cheers!
8/Aug/2017, 9:24 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
CaptK Profile
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Date Registered: 03-2017
Location: Sydney, Northern Beaches
TOTAL POSTS: 60
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Re: Starting issues - help!


I am thinking it's a Blown Head Gasket...

Are you using coolant ??
The shaking on start up may be from a head gasket leak into the combustion chamber/s.

basically what happens is that you drive the car and it builds up pressure in the cooling system and it pushes it's way into the combustion chamber whilst you are driving. This is a not a major issue unless there is heaps of coolant leaking in there..

Then, when you turn off the car, the coolant is still under pressure and forcing it's way into the combustion chamber and then when you go to start it again - it tries to start with one or more cylinders with coolant in them. It takes a few seconds to force that coolant out through the valves and then dry out. You will also get a little bit of coolant in your oil (refer to milky oil cap)

Try a bottle of this
[sign in to see URL]

I have used it in a few vehicles with great success... - Much better than the old "chemi-Weld brand stuff that was used...


First step... Go to a mechanic and ask them to do a radiator pressure test.
If there is a loss of pressure (and no obvious external leaks) then that says you have a blown head gasket most likely into the combustion chamber. If it is immediately hard to start after the pressure test (or runs rough if it does start) then that is a sign that you are leaking coolant into the combustion chamber.


Last edited by CaptK, 9/Aug/2017, 10:08 pm


---
Be Yourself... Everyone else is already taken.
X-5047
2005 Auto Ti-L (Sunroof)
9/Aug/2017, 10:03 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Etay Profile
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Date Registered: 07-2017
TOTAL POSTS: 7
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Re:


Hey,
Thanks for the reply! It's a very useful information
And I did use a product, and so far so good
I flushed the radiator, and the oil as well and replaced them, and so far no lose of coolant or signs of milky oil.

The only thing I am bit worried is that I solved another problem, and not the main problem(which started the thread)
Can it still be a fuel pump problem, if I checked the fuel pressure with a gauge and it shows good pressure?
Can it still be the pump if the car doesn't fail under load?

Can it be something minor with the pump? Such as bad ground to the pump?
9/Aug/2017, 11:20 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 
Wiz Au Profile
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Date Registered: 06-2017
Location: Canberra, ACT
TOTAL POSTS: 185
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Re: Re:


quote:

Etay wrote:
..And now for the big thing
I discovered some milky texture in the oil cup, and the engine shakes for 10-15 seconds when I start the car until I rev her up.
I suspect this is a head gasket leak emoticon



Some questions
1. Can a fuel pump fail inconsistently?


[sign in to see URL] electrical connections or a 'sticky' pump motor. a bit more voltage (>14v vs [sign in to see URL]) with a jump start gets it going.

quote:

2. Can the leak in the head gasket cause all this trouble??


[sign in to see URL] the engine stops with the 'bad' cylinder on the 'intake' stroke it will be in a vacuum state which will suck coolant from the 'water jacket' and flood the cylinder with coolant. I would expect it to be hard to start until all the coolant is cycled out / burnt off but eventually start and run rough for a while, then seem fine.

If the engine stops with the 'bad' cylinder in the Compression stroke, fuel/CO/CO2 gasses will be pushed into the water jacket and into the coolant. This will show up with the colour changing gas analyser used over the radiator cap opening when the engine is running and warmed up. Ignition explosive pressures inside the cylinder are far higher than coolant pressure (.9Bar?) so I disagree that when the coolant gets hot it will pressurise itself into the cylinder. 450psi beats 13psi anyday = exhaust gasses in coolant, not coolant in cylinder. Hence why they have a tool to test for exhaust gasses in the coolant.

quote:

3. Did someone used a head gasket seal fluid and lived to tell?


Never used one. Thought that if it could tell the difference between a gasket leak and a rubber seal in the water pump, it must be magic I don't understand.

quote:

4. Does a blocked fuel filter/bad fuel pump can cause head gasket leak?


Definitely a NO. Well, not really...
Head gaskets fail because of age/deterioration, or overheating creating 'warping' of the two metal surfaces either side of the gasket, or some other problem between the gasket and the metal surfaces (freezing solid of coolant, but your radiator is also toast then)

Unless you had a long term low fuel pressure problem leading to a really lean burn and very high 'engine cooking' temps, the two are not related. I didn't read anywhere you say anything about the temp gauge being on "H" at any time?



Last edited by Wiz Au, 10/Aug/2017, 5:46 pm


---
2004 T30 series II, Ti (now sold)
JRR50 Pathfinder, QD32ETi Turbo Diesel, with 'lots o fruit'.
2012 Jeep Cherokee KK CRD Limited is current ride.
Will be looking for a white or silver 2011-2013 T31 TL (Diesel) to "pimp out".
10/Aug/2017, 5:45 pm Link to this post Send Email PM   Send Private Message Blog
 


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